“At that point in time, I was caught up in some of the political nonsense amongst various teachers residing in the States, and held forth on this one drunken night at one of the regular parties the dojo had, and Kobayashi sensei said, “X-sensei is my friend, Y-sensei is my friend, Z-sensei is my friend. It all seems simple to me.” In his happy air, in his unpretentious practice and refusal to mystify aikido as either the ultimate combat or a means of establishing world peace, it would have been easy to regard him as an unexceptional man, one who simply liked pleasure, be it jovial laughter, enough beers to make him wobble when he bicycled home, and a regular routine of thumping his students and being thumped in turn. Rather, he always seemed to me to be a man of sublime common sense. As theoretical physicists strive for elegance and simplicity in their equations, Kobayashi sensei appeared to me to do with his life. Such simplicity is far from easy, and all too rare.”

It Had to Be Felt #30: Kobayashi Yasuo – A Living Axle, by Ellis Amdur

Yasuo Kobayashi was born in Tokyo in 1936 and started training in Judo in his fifth year of elementary school. He enrolled at Aikido Hombu Dojo in 1954, the same year that he entered Meiji University, becoming one of the early post-war students of Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba. Now an eighth dan, he is the head of Aikido Kobayashi Dojo, which has more than 120 affiliated dojo around the world

A round table discussion with Kobayashi Sensei appeared previously on the Aikido Sangenkai blog as “Yasuo Kobayashi and Fumiko Nakayama – Living Aikido” (Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3).

The current interview is the second part of a two part interview with Kobayashi Sensei that originally appeared in the May 2005 issue of Gekkan Hiden (月刊秘伝 / “Secret Teachings Monthly”), a well known martial arts magazine in Japan. You may wish to read Part 1 of the interview before reading this section.

This interview was also published in a collection of interviews with students of the Founder published in Japanese as 開祖の横顔 (“Profiles of the Founder”) in 2009. There was a short introduction to this work in the article “Morihei Ueshiba – Profiles of the Founder“. A number of English translations of interviews from that collection appeared have appeared previously – Nobuyoshi Tamura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Isoyama Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Shigenobu Okumura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Nobuyuki Watanabe Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Masatake Fujita Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) , Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Kanshu Sunadomari Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Kato Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Yoshio Kuroiwa Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Morito Suganuma (Part 1 | Part 2) and Kenji Shimizu (Part 1 | Part 2).

“However hard we pushed the staff would not move.” – Yasuo Kobayashi

Interview with Aikido Shihan Yasuo Kobayashi – Part 2

Q: I see. Do the jiyu-waza (“freee-style techniques”) that are often seen at demonstrations date from that time?

A: No, that began to be done after a system of examinations was established. After the number of members began to increase a system of Dan and Kyu examinations was established, and the uchi-deshi took ukemi at the time. However, there were only about five uchi-deshi then, so they weren’t able to partner with everybody as the numbers increased and so it came to be that those taking examinations would alternate taking ukemi for each other. It was then that jiyu-waza was added as an item on the examinations. Demonstrations began to be held from the time that I enrolled, but kihon-waza (“basic techniques”) alone weren’t interesting, so as the result of much thought it was decided to show kokyu-nage. Until that time kokyu-nage was not really done in the dojo.

Q: Why was that?

A: O-Sensei wasn’t very fond of kokyu-nage. Because “It’s just impossible to throw somebody flying that simply!” was his thinking. However, it’s excellent for conditioning so it was introduced into the curriculum. Something similar happened with aiki-nage, against the same background that accompanied the beginning of jiyu-waza. Speaking of that, as far as I know koshi-nage was not practiced at first either, it was after Shoji Nishio Sensei and Yoshio Kuroiwa Sensei researched it themselves that it became popular with other instructors.

“When we went to Hawaii for a seminar wearing our student uniforms
the customs officer asked me if we were in the army.”

Great individuality among the Shihan

Q: Did you often go to Iwama?

A: When there was something happening, like the Aiki Taisai, I was often called there. But it might be better to say that I was dispatched there rather than called. Sometimes a phone call would come from O-Sensei “I’m sick!”, but when I hurried to Iwama he would be doing farmwork in good health. (laughing) I understood later that when O-Sensei became lonely he would use illness as an excuse to summon the young students. Certainly, they didn’t have training every day in Iwama, and since Morihiro Saito Sensei was employed by the National Railway there were times that nobody was there and he must have suddenly become lonely. When that happened I would be made to go and be someone for him to talk with. I would work the farm with him in Iwama, and we would eat together. Normally he was very mild-mannered and even if he only had a single steamed bun there were times that he would divide it with the students. However, when it came to taking care of him he was like a normal selfish old grandfather. (laughing) In any case, his mood would make 180 degree changes very quickly, often going this way and that. For that reason, if one could look ahead and begin to read his habits then one would gradually begin to understand what O-Sensei wanted, but if one couldn’t do that they would have a really difficult time working as an uchi-deshi. There were more than a few people who, although having ability as Budoka, failed through a lack of this kind of sensitivity. However, the experiences from that time were useful later when opening a dojo, so I think that the shugyo of the uchi-deshi was by no means wasted.

Nobuyoshi Tamura (left), Koichi Tohei (center), Yasuo Kobayashi (right)

Q: I’ve heard that you interacted with Morihiro Saito Sensei, Sadateru Arikawa Sensei and Shoji Nishio Sensei, what were your impressions of them?

A: I think that Saito Sensei was attempting to faithfully hand down the techniques that O-Sensei taught in his sixties. As O-Sensei moved from his sixties to his seventies and eighties he inevitably lost physical strength, which caused the movements of his techniques to become softer and more circular. Kisshomaru Sensei changed the techniques at Hombu in accordance with that, but to the last Saito Sensei was fixed on what had been transmitted to him. I think that Gozo Shioda Sensei’s Yoshinkan was the same. On the other hand, since Kisshomaru Sensei mostly didn’t interfere with the details of other’s techniques each of the Shihan at Hombu dojo were a little bit different. Depending upon the instructor, the impression left by even the same technique could be completely different. However, it could be said that it is this depth and breadth that created today’s Aikikai.

Q: Certainly, when one watches Aikikai demonstrations there is a lot of variation. You had many chances to be taught directly by Arikawa Sensei and Tada Sensei, what were your impressions of them?

A: Arikawa Sensei came from Karate, and his training was intense. For that reason, there were a relatively large number of young people among those who followed Arikawa Sensei, even among the regular students, and he would mainly specialize in teaching at universities. Perhaps because of that he did not teach very much outside of Hombu Dojo, and he himself rarely spoke to people of personal matters, so although he was very popular not very many people know much about him in detail. Tada Sensei was a person who never neglected his personal training, so he accumulated an unusual amount of damage from techniques. Depending upon the shihan there were some cases in which they could not apply techniques unless the uke followed them, but that was absolutely never the case when it came to Tada Sensei.

Q: Is there an instructor who influenced you the most?

A: I started with O-Sensei and then attended training with a variety of instructors at Hombu, but each of their techniques were different and I would adjust to each of them, so it felt as if I built my own style from there. Apart from O-Sensei, I was influenced by Kisshomaru Sensei. He had the fewest idiosyncrasies, and felt the most straightforward.

Suppressing protesters at Tokyo University – January 1969

Moving among the common people, I spread Aikido

Q: When did you open the current Kobayashi Dojo?

A: April of Showa year 44 (1969). That was right in the middle of the university protests – universities had been locked out across the board and studies had been halted. Many of the students had fallen into a lifestyle of self-indulgent drinking and massages. It was then that I thought that there may be something that I could do. Well, the only thing that I was capable of was teaching Aikido, but even so I wasn’t able to just go ahead and use Hombu Dojo for my own purposes, so I thought about establishing my own dojo. I didn’t have any money, so I tore down the parking lot next to my house and build a hand-made eighteen tatami mat dojo (*Translator’s note: each tatami mat is approximately three feet wide and six feet long), and I would teach there when I didn’t have to teach at Hombu.

Hiroaki Kobayashi Sensei, now a professional instructor

Q: In other words, you built a dojo for the sake of the students?

A: That’s right. In any case, students don’t eat and drink in small amounts, so those expenses were a real burden. Therefore, when I began recruiting new members I had to make the monthly fees fit their budgets. When my son Hiroaki was three years old, passersby would see me teaching students and my son and ask me “Please teach my children too”, so the number of members began to increase gradually.

Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba and Morihiro Saito in Iwama

Q: It seems that you place importance on sword and staff at your dojo?

A: The sword and staff that I teach is that which was organized by Saito Sensei. O-Sensei would do something different every day, so Saito Sensei, who was taught in Iwama for many years, organized them so that they would be easy to understand and that it would be easy to understand the extension of the technical principles of the sword and staff into the body arts. I think that collecting O-Sensei’s techniques like this was a great achievement. During a day of training in my dojo we always practice with both the sword and the staff, the thirteen step jo kata, the twenty-two step jo kata, the thirty-one step jo kata, we practice them just like that. I also place importance on training in the sword and the staff when I am overseas.

Q: What are your thoughts concerning Aikido as a budo?

A: Truthfully, this is a problem. There are some who criticize Aikido practice as being watered down, and even I don’t deny that. However, if we put that aside, I think that the fact that it has been able to attract those who had no previous interest in budo is an achievement. I myself trained intensely when I was young, so I understand that the evaluation of a budo is connected to its power to handle the strength of a budo’s attacks, but I feel that perhaps we should turn our eyes to the achievement of “the budo that was opened to 10,000 people – Aikido”.

Q: When I hear you speak this way I understand that the narrow and inaccessible path of Aikido has become the broad path that it is today through the efforts of many teachers. So, what are your objectives for the future?

A: I love Aikido and have trained hard for many years so that now I have opened a dojo and am teaching, and I would like to continue in the same way to, as it were, move among the common people and spread Aikido. For that reason, even now I take ukemi for the beginners! In the end, I like to move around when I teach. (laughing) Also, if the locations and the teachers are available then I would like to move forward with opening more dojos. I have more than one-hundred students raised in my dojo that have opened up their own dojos around the country, and I would like to continue to develop capable people.

Gekkan Hiden – May, 2005

Published by: Christopher Li – Honolulu, HI

The post Interview with Aikido Shihan Yasuo Kobayashi – Part 2 appeared first on Aikido Sangenkai Blog.

Yasuo Kobayashi (小林保雄) Sensei – what a happy guy! 

Yasuo Kobayashi was born in Tokyo in 1936 and started training in Judo in his fifth year of elementary school. He enrolled at Aikido Hombu Dojo in 1954, the same year that he entered Meiji University, becoming one of the early post-war students of Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba. Now an eighth dan, he is the head of Aikido Kobayashi Dojo, which has more than 120 affiliated dojo around the world.

Aikido Journal editor Stanley Pranin called him a “man of honor” – when put under pressure to withdraw from Aikido Journal’s 1st Friendship Demonstration in 1985 he simply said “I promised to attend and therefore I will do so.”. His refusal to succumb to outside pressure was the leverage that allowed that demonstration to proceed successfully.

A round table discussion with Kobayashi Sensei appeared previously on the Aikido Sangenkai blog as “Yasuo Kobayashi and Fumiko Nakayama – Living Aikido” (Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3).

The current interview is the first part of a two part interview with Kobayashi Sensei that originally appeared in the May 2005 issue of Gekkan Hiden (月刊秘伝 / “Secret Teachings Monthly”), a well known martial arts magazine in Japan.

This interview was also published in a collection of interviews with students of the Founder published in Japanese as 開祖の横顔 (“Profiles of the Founder”) in 2009. There was a short introduction to this work in the article “Morihei Ueshiba – Profiles of the Founder“. A number of English translations of interviews from that collection appeared have appeared previously – Nobuyoshi Tamura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Isoyama Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Shigenobu Okumura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Nobuyuki Watanabe Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Masatake Fujita Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) , Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Kanshu Sunadomari Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Kato Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Yoshio Kuroiwa Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Morito Suganuma (Part 1 | Part 2) and Kenji Shimizu (Part 1 | Part 2).

Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba in old Hombu Dojo
Yasuo Kobayashi Sensei entering from the right

Interview with Aikido Shihan Yasuo Kobayashi – Part 1

From Judo to Aikido

Q: What motivated you to begin Aikido?

A: I had practiced Judo from the time that I was a child. When I entered high school I was friends with the son of Tomoaki Danzaki (檀崎 友彰) Sensei from the Iaido Renmei and he invited me – “There’s a kind of Budo called Aikido, don’t you want to go see it?”. So we went to Hombu Dojo and for the first time I actually saw Aikido with my own eyes. That was the fall of my third year in high school. That was the height of Rikidozan’s popularity, and pro-wrestling was incredibly popular. However, when one spoke of Budo there was absolutely no talk of anything other than Judo, Kendo or Karate, it was a time when something like Aikido or koryu jujutsu would never fall from one’s lips.

Tomoaki Danzaki, 1906-2003, of the Muso Shinden Ryu
He was a student of Morihei Ueshiba’s close friend Hakudo Nakayama

Q: What was your first impression upon seeing Aikido? I think that it must have been something of a completely different nature from Judo.

A: Yes, that’s right. It had a completely different image from the budo that I had seen previously. Conversely, that was one of the things that fascinated me. It wasn’t like Judo, in which one paired up and applied techniques – applying techniques to each other after establishing a distance felt new to me. When we went to visit there was no explanation, they would just apply techniques to each other in silence. I was just told “If you want to do it then come at me!”. The person who was teaching at that time was Hiroshi Tada Sensei.

Q: Did you turn towards Aikido right away?

A: No, I was studying for the university entrance examinations at the time, so I enrolled after I entered the university. I also continued Judo separately through my second year at the university. The Kodokan in Suidobashi, the Aikikai in Ushigome, both of them were close enough to walk to from my home. However, I gradually began to feel that there was a limit to my Judo. That is to say, since I don’t have anything close to a large build, no matter what I did I couldn’t win against large opponents. That was a time when they didn’t have the weight classes that they have today, which made me think that all the more.

Q: I see.

A: Further, as opposed to Judo, in which most of one’s opponents are young, there are a wide range of ages in Aikido. There are young people, but there are also older people. Then, there were those who had resolved to come from the countryside to learn. It was a time in Aikido when both those learning and those teaching were young, so there was a kind of enthusiasm. For those reasons I gradually began to fall towards Aikido rather than Judo, and I came to learn Aikido exclusively from my second year at the university.

Yasuo Kobayashi taking ukemi for Koichi Tohei
Akasaka Palace (State Guest House)

Q: That was a time when Aikido was young. What was it like back then?

A: O-Sensei was living in Iwama and Kisshomaru Sensei was a company employee, so instruction was centered around Tada Sensei. Even if one calls it Hombu Dojo, there were only around ten students. Unlike now, it was a wooden building, and there were two or so war refugee families living there – the space was partitioned for their use. The tatami was tattered and the roof was falling in – light was provided by a naked light bulb swinging from the ceiling. (laughing)

Q: That’s quite different from the way it is now, isn’t it?

A: Yes, it is. At the time I would attend the morning training at 6:30 a.m., and Kisshomaru Sensei was teaching that class. There were some five students living in the dojo, and although there were those who aspired to become professional Aikido instructors, there were also those who commuted to school or work from the dojo. Those people all had a sense of purpose, so they were all interesting human beings – there were many areas in which I was inexperienced, so there were many things that I was able to to learn from them.

Q: Did you become an uchi-deshi?

A: I was living the the Kudan district and I was close enough to walk to the Hombu Dojo in Ushigome, so I commuted. However, although I only attended the morning training at first, as time went on I became interested in the training being done by the uchi-deshi. I would go to the dojo early in the morning, and except for when I was in school I would spend all of my time living with the uchi-deshi, just returning to my home late at night. So, it seems that everybody thought that I was an uchi-deshi. (laughing) I also took care of O-Sensei, so I was treated almost the same as an uchi-deshi.

“When one was thrown by O-Sensei power would be added to the center of their body.”

Q: Who were the uchi-deshi that were living in the dojo at that time?

A: Tada Sensei wasn’t living there, the uchi-deshi that were living there were Sadateru Arikawa (有川定輝) Sensei, Masamichi Noro (野呂昌道) Sensei and Nobuyoshi Tamura (田村信喜) Sensei, who later went to spread Aikido in France.

Front row second from left: Tadashi Abe (阿部正)
Front row right: Nobuyoshi Tamura (田村信喜)
Front row center: the “King of Mounted Bandits” Kohinata Hakuro (小日向白朗)
Second row right: Kazuo Chiba, Yasuo Kobayashi, 

Q: In your book (“Aikido, My Way: the Story of Kobayashi Dojos”) you also wrote about Tadashi Abe (阿部正) Sensei and Koichi Tohei (藤平光一) Sensei…

A: Yes. Tohei Sensei was good at teaching, so I think that there were many people who were influenced by him. Abe Sensei once came to the dojo unexpectedly and shouted at me “Is Tohei here!?!”. I had never met him, but I thought “Is this the Abe Sempai that I’ve heard so much about?”. While this was happening Tohei Sensei came in, and as I was showing Abe Sensei in he said “Bring me some water”. As I rushed to bring him the water he said “No matter what I do I’m no match for this guy, so you throw the water on him!”. (laughing) Of course, it was an impossible situation since there was no way that I could do that, but as I paused in confusion he suddenly snatched up the cup himself and threw the water on Tohei Sensei’s face. As you might expect, Tohei Sensei just gave a strained laugh.

Q: What an incredible scene! (laughing) When did you become an instructor at Hombu?

A: At the same time that I graduated from the university. Work was difficult to find at the time, and without an introduction from the education department or the employment office it was difficult to find employment, but I carelessly stood up an interview that I had been recommended for by the employment office. (laughing) They scolded me – “We’re not going to throw any more leads your way!”. But at the time that I graduated I was a 3rd Dan, so I just became an instructor at Hombu.

Q: I’ve heard that your classes at the time were severe and that you received some complaints…

A: At the time that wasn’t limited to me, and it happened more than a few times. The instructors were all young and aggressive, and it wasn’t unusual for them to not take it easy even on the beginners when they were throwing. As for myself, rather than teaching other people I was more interested in my own training than anything else, so it was a time when that sort of thing couldn’t be helped. For that reason, when the uchi-deshi practiced together it was really something. Because at the time there was no training system like the one that is currently established the beginners would be mixed into the training with everybody else. We didn’t do a wide variety of techniques like we do now. “Watch and remember!” was how it was. All the same, I thought that wasn’t the right way, so when I taught I would separate the beginners and teach them separately. Thanks to that I became popular.

Q: You received instruction from the Founder Morihei Ueshiba, felt his techniques, what was your impression?

A: The O-Sensei that taught me was around 70 years old and he still had a lot of physical power. In Iwama he would lift bales of rice without a problem. While he had white hair and a small frame, he shoulders were broad and he had a solid build. When he held a bokken or jo his eyes would become especially sharp. When one was thrown by O-Sensei power would be added to the center of their body. When one is thrown normally it feels like a bouncing ball, it was only with O-Sensei that it felt as if you were being destroyed as you fell. That was really mysterious. O-Sensei would show us the techniques, but there was virtually no explanation of their content. He would often speak of the Kojiki, or about Omoto-kyo, but unfortunately the content was like grasping at clouds, and at the time I just thought “When will we get to move our bodies?”. (laughing) When I think about it now, I think that I should have paid closer attention.

Yasuo Kobayashi taking ukemi for Koichi Tohei (top)
and Morihei Ueshiba (bottom)

Q: There wasn’t any technical explanation at all?

A: Speaking of how to apply technique specifically, depending upon the person there are those who claim – “Ahh, he said this, he said that” – but I, at least, never heard any. When one watches O-Sensei’s demonstrations from his later years he appears to move like someone who has been liberated from earthly desires, but it is because one would be damaged if they didn’t take the fall that the people taking the falls must move in that manner. There are those who failed to understand that point and only saw the external appearance – this is the root of many misunderstandings.

Continued in Part 2…

Published by: Christopher Li – Honolulu, HI

The post Interview with Aikido Shihan Yasuo Kobayashi – Part 1 appeared first on Aikido Sangenkai Blog.

“You should think of ukemi as being the secret to aikido”. This is my personal experience. During my uchideshi time the founder made me fall without questioning, on top of this I was scolded mercilessly when my ukemi was bad. I had so many painful experiences, that I continuously worried about whether there would be ever any progress, if I would do things like this. Having made it in Judo to the fourth dan grade and thinking I did good ukemi, I doubted that I had to be scolded like this.

But that was a mistake. I had forgotten to put Judo aside and start from zero. I only took my ukemi as I pleased. Yet I was made to become aware of the fact, that my body didn’t move as one with o-sensei’s body. When I think about it now I feel ashamed, that I thought it would be good just to take a showy ukemi.

Ukemi means reading your partner’s breath, and if one will not respond towards the nage (the person who throws) you cannot speak of true ukemi. Mastering ukemi means noticing the signs of your environment, which enables you to deal promptly with the circumstances. The bamboo for examples moves according to the relative strength of the wind, and when the wind stops, the bamboo returns to its original state. That is completely natural and it is alive. In aikido we don’t fight for victory or defeat. It is a way where we improve ourselves through training by repeating the techniques. It is important that you always can correspond with shite (the person, who is executing the technique) whom you are facing. This however is very difficult.

Though it is hard to learn a natural ukemi, an ukemi without force, you have made a huge progress in your technique whenever your body understands a little bit more about it. That may be, because you have learnt to utilize the executing person’s breath power in your own technique. And in my case, I was uke of osensei…

It is important to experience naturally strong techniques. If you cannot do ukemi soft and flexible, it is most likely, that you cannot execute a technique soft and flexible. The natural ukemi in aikido also makes you understand life.

“The Ukemi in Aikido” by Kenji Shimizu

Already an accomplished Judo-ka, Kenji Shimizu (清水健二) Sensei became one of the last uchi-deshi (“live-in student”) of Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba in 1963.

After the passing of the Founder he established his own style of Aikido – Tendo-ryu Aikido (天道流合気道), “School of the Way of Heaven”. In 1991 Shimizu Sensei received his eighth dan from the Nihon Kokusai Budoin, and in 2002 was honored by the Japanese foreign minister for spreading knowledge of Aikido as a part of Japanese culture. He travels and teaches extensively in Europe.

He is the author of “Zen and Aikido” (with Shigeo Kamata) and “Aikido: The Heavenly Road“.

This is the second part of a two part interview with Shimizu Sensei that originally appeared in the July and August 2006 issues of Gekkan Hiden (月刊秘伝 / “Secret Teachings Monthly”), a well known martial arts magazine in Japan. You may wish to read Part 1 of the interview before reading this section.

This interview was also published in a collection of interviews with students of the Founder published in Japanese as 開祖の横顔 (“Profiles of the Founder”) in 2009. There was a short introduction to this work in the article “Morihei Ueshiba – Profiles of the Founder“. A number of English translations of interviews from that collection appeared have appeared previously – Nobuyoshi Tamura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Isoyama Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Shigenobu Okumura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Nobuyuki Watanabe Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Masatake Fujita Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) , Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Kanshu Sunadomari Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Kato Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Yoshio Kuroiwa Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) and Morito Suganuma (Part 1 | Part 2).

Kenji Shimizu takes ukemi for Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba

Interview with Aikido Shihan Kenji Shimizu – Part 2

Concerning Morihei Ueshiba and Sokaku Takeda

Q: Was there anything else about the Founder than left an impression on you?

A: While doing muna-dori during one demonstration I grabbed O-Sensei’s beard along with his keiko-gi. “Oh no!”, I thought, but he just applied the technique to me calmly. It felt as if he had mastered every applied variation in his skin. Then, O-Sensei had an interest in calligraphy, and at that time it was usually my job to prepare the ink. I would prepare a large quantity of ink, and O-Sensei would apply it to a thick brush and write on a large piece of calligraphy paper – at that time the ink from the brush would often drip down onto the calligraphy paper. But even then O-Sensei would just say “Huh”, gather himself and use it as one part of the character that he was drawing. When he did that the shape of the characters would become unique. Later on a calligraphy specialist saw that and said “That O-Sensei drew it this way must have some kind of meaning…”. As you might expect, I had some mixed feelings when I heard that. I certainly couldn’t say that it was the result of dribbled ink.

Yoshio Sugino and Minoru Mochizuki training in Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-ryu

I heard this from Minoru Mochizuki Sensei (望月稔) of the Yoseikan (養成館). Long before I became a student there were many high ranking Judo and Kendo practitioners who would come to train, and O-Sensei would criticize Judo and Kendo without compunction. He would even turn towards Kendo students and say “Kendo today is just hitting with a sword”. The former Prime Minister Fumimaro Konoe (近衛文麿) came to train for a time, and one day he finished training and prepared to go home. At the time O-Sensei was with a guest in the reception room and one of the students came to say “His excellency Konoe is leaving”, but O-Sensei just said “Is that so? Well, give him my regards.” and didn’t even stand up from his seat. The guest, surprised, asked “Is it OK if you don’t see him out?”, but O-Sensei said “You are a guest, Konoe-san is a student.”. He certainly had that kind of fiber. There are those today who never actually met O-Sensei who just repeat hearsay, but I bathed with him and we broke bread together. (laughing) According to Mochizuki Sensei, in the beginning of the Showa era (1926-1989) the Kodokan’s Jigoro Kano Sensei gave O-Sensei a look or two. Truthfully, it seems as if he wanted to pull him into the Kodokan, but O-Sensei had already created his own school. So then he directed his own senior students to study under him. Yoshio Sugino Sensei of the Katori Shinto-ryu was also one of those people.

Q: Did you have some interaction with Mochizuki Sensei while he was alive?

A: Yes. During the time that Mochizuki Sensei was the Director (塾頭) of Hombu Dojo he met Sokaku Takeda, and he would often talk about that. Sokaku Sensei came to visit while Mochizuki Sensei was watching the dojo. He seemed like one of those ancient warriors that appear in period novels. He would always carry a sword cane with him when he went out, and he would conceal a knife under the front of his clothing, so his abdomen was covered with cuts. Then, when he went to go home in a taxi after visiting the dojo a wild dog started barking at Sokaku Sensei insistently, and when he hit it with the butt of his sword cane it fell over right there. When Mochizuki Sensei checked he found that it had died instantly. Sugino Sensei also met Sokaku Sensei, and according to him Sokaku Sensei would always check the room before entering – there were times when he made Sugino Sensei open the door for him. It was also difficult when he drank tea, he would always carry tea leaves and a tea cup with him and would just ask for hot water when he was out. When Sugino Sensei prepared the hot water for him he would say “You take a sip”. The point being that he must have been afraid of being drugged or poisoned.

Q: Those must have been normal precautions for ancient warriors.

A: Even in O-Sensei’s case, he wouldn’t stay in the bath long, and wouldn’t display openings carelessly. In any case, he was an extremely cautious person. Perhaps that is something that he learned from Sokaku Sensei.

Kenji Shimizu taking ukemi

Memories of Hombu Dojo

Q: Did the Founder do sword and staff in his later years?

A: No. He almost never did. Most of the time the O-Sensei used a sword or a staff it was for explaining the Riai (理合 – “unified principles”) of Aikido. Because Aikido is not Kendo. We were often taught the Riai of Aiki-ken and Aiki-jo. The demonstrations left an impression on me. There was a demonstration that was given at one place in which O-Sensei carried a folding fan. He gave me a bokken and said “I’ll go easy on you, so come and cut me as strongly as you can!”. In the instant that I tried to strike him as hard as I could I took an atemi to the jaw and flew backwards. It wasn’t anything like “going easy”! (laughing) O-Sensei would often use a folding fan to express yokemen-uchi and tsuki movements. If I had thought that was going to happen then things would have gone differently. At the time, there were many people who came to learn who were from the class of company presidents and politicians. For example, one who was very kind to me was Sunao Sonoda (園田直), who was employed as the Minister of Health, Labour and Welfare and the Minister for Foreign Affairs. Also, Takeo Kimura (木村武雄), who was the right hand man for former Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka (田中角栄), Tomisaburo Hashimoto (橋本登美三郎) and Toshiki Kaifu (海部俊樹), who would later become Prime Minister, were there. Among those Mr. Sonoda was the first head of the Kokkai Aikikai (国会合気会 – National Diet Aikikai), where I taught for about three years as the first shihan.

Toshiki Kaifu speaking at the 80th Anniversary of Hombu Dojo,
the 70th Anniversary of the Aikikai

Also, there was Mr. Shigeru Sahashi (佐橋滋), who was the Administrative Vice‐Minister of International Trade and Industry (通産省事務次官). When Mr. Sahashi was the Administrative Vice‐Minister the Minister of International Trade and Industry (通産大臣) was Mr. Takeo Miki (三木武夫), who would later become Prime Minister (*Translator’s note: Takeo Miki also ran for election as Prime Minister in 1942, against Hideki Tojo), and in the Ministry of International Trade and Industry the Administrative Vice‐Minister was at the top of the career ladder. One time, a bill was passed by Minister Miki’s office, but failed to pass through Vice‐Minister Sahashi’s office. From that time they were called “Minister Sahashi and Vice-Minister Miki” in the Ministry of International Trade and Industry. That Mr. Sahashi wrote just a little bit about his time training with me in the Showa year 44 (1969) issue of Bungeishunju (文芸春秋). Mr. Watanabe, who was a Bureau Chief in the Ministry of International Trade and Industry, and the Giant’s coach Mr. Hiroshi Arakawa would also come to practice often.

Coach Hiroshi Arakawa watches Sadaharu Oh practice cutting – 1964

Q: Who were the uchi-deshi at the time that you enrolled?

A: I don’t have much chance to meet them these days because most of them are now overseas, or for other reasons, but the uchi-deshi at the time were Tamura (Nobuyoshi) Sensei, Saotome (Mitsugi) Sensei, Sasaki (Masando) Sensei, Chiba (Kazuo) Sensei, Imaizumi (Shizuo) Sensei who was was the captain of the Waseda University Aikido club, also Sugano (Seiichi) Sensei, Kurita (Minoru) Sensei and Kanai (Mitsunari) Sensei. There were always about ten uchi-deshi there. In any case, the life of an uchi-deshi is difficult. One is always hungry. Of course, the compensation is small, so in the end one had to hang on to their parent’s legs. My parents wanted me to find another job quickly, and we used to fight about that a lot. When my parents came to Tokyo we took them to some of the better places that we would sometimes go to eat, but my mother said “You eat in places like this?” and broke out in tears. However, it’s said that those who come from hunger build spirit, and we certainly had that. It is said that in the past only those with enough money were be able to become uchi-deshi, so these were really very fine people.

Kenji Shimizu and Morihei Ueshiba around 1965-1966

Tendo-ryu is “Shimizu Aikido”

Q: Was it from Showa year 45 (1970) that you became independent as Tendo-ryu?

A: Yes, that’s right. That was after O-Sensei passed away. I first I used the name Shimizu Dojo, I rented space from a Judo dojo called Sato Dojo (*Translator’s note: 佐藤道場 – now continued by the children of the original instructor as an osteopathic clinic) in Setagaya Ward. After that I moved to our current location and took the name Tendo-ryu.

Q: Did you have a plan of your own when you became independent?

A: Even if you use the one word “Aikido” there are a lot of variations, aren’t there? Yoshinkan, Tomiki-ryu, even at Aikikai Hombu Dojo the techniques could be quite different depending upon who is instructing. We use he word Aikido as a general term for all of them, but since the content of each of them is different I decided to call my Aikido – “Shimizu Aikido”. In the Bujutsu (Kenjutsu) of the past, it is said that there were more than fifty ryu-ha (schools). The ryu-ha would polish each other, and there there was great progress in Bujutsu. Morihei Ueshiba Sensei was certainly my instructor, but if I have a dojo and teach then it’s my Aikido, isn’t it? That was the reason that I called it Shimizu Dojo when I became independent. After that, it wasn’t that I hid my individual name in order to expand, I thought that a solid ryu-ha should have a name, so I named it “Tendo-ryu”. For that reason, I never consciously changed the techniques. What I was doing were O-Sensei’s techniques, and the foundation was constructed strictly by O-Sensei, but my movements are not the same as O-Sensei’s. My thoughts and physique are different, at any rate it becomes Shimizu’s Aikido. Accordingly, although it is called Tendo-ryu, it has not been altered greatly.

Q: Is there something that you are particular about when it comes to instruction?

A: What I am particular about when it comes to instruction concerns ukemi, as we discussed earlier. For the uke to match their kokyu to the nage is something that is extremely difficult. In Aikido there is kokyu-ho and kokyu-nage, and depending upon the person large individual differences emerge. Well, it can’t be helped that there are skillful people and then those who are not so skillful, those who have the feeling but whose bodies can’t keep up and so forth. For that reason, there are issues that of skillful/unskillful in casual training that can’t be helped. There are those who develop quickly but end up stagnating, and there are those who develop slowly, a little bit at a time. One more thing, I believe that fighting for victory and defeat in training is not good. Since this is Budo, one might think that it looks like fighting to outward appearances, but the reality is different. In the repetition of kata the shite acts as the blade, and the uke must act as the sharpening stone. I believe that it is through that repetition that one becomes tempered. It is my belief that Aikido today is too conscious of strength, it seems as if the techniques are being destroyed. Perhaps one could say that people are “pursuing the strength that can be seen with the eyes”.

Kenji Shimizu and Morihei Ueshiba around 1965-1966

The relationship of Shite as the blade, Uke as the sharpening stone

Q: Do you mean that the relationship between the blade and the sharpening stone has been destroyed?

A: Yes, that’s right. If the sharpening stone is uneven then the blade will be uneven as well. When one turns an old bolt, if the bolt is rusty then they apply some oil and turn it a little bit at a time, if one just tries to force it without any oil then it will break. I am fearful of becoming that kind of Aikido. In other words, I am fearful of falling into the delusion that one cannot become strong without applying a technique strongly, of pursuing external strength.

In the case of Aikido, one does not apply technique suddenly, even though one applies it slowly it is effective. I have often experienced attempts of people struggling with each other to apply techniques that will injure the partner. However repetitive kata practice is, I do not think that it is acceptable to injure someone unnecessarily, and if one side resists needlessly the one being resisted will just respond by resisting in turn.

Q: As you said before, the role of the Shite is to act as the blade, and the role of the Uke is to act as the sharpening stone, so will the Uke be able to bring their role as the sharpening stone to fruition if they are not of a higher level than the Shite?

A: There is an important meaning there. For example, during demonstrations Uke becomes able to read the kokyu of the Shite. If that’s not the case then the Shite is simply throwing around someone who is of a lower level then they are, and one is just being thrown around. There are also those who say “The truth is that in Aikido technique one cannot take ukemi”, but it is easy to make it impossible to take ukemi. One just has to apply a technique halfway – but that is a mistake. Controlling the opponent without damaging them is the best. Conversely, when one thinks that it is acceptable to damage the opponent they will not be able to apply their technique on powerful opponents. The reason for this is that once they encounter resistance partway through the technique it’s all over. If one actually tries this then they will understand – if one attempts to use force “I’ll hold you down!” during training then one could say with confidence that the opponent will always sense that and instinctively resist. However, if one applies the technique slowly so that the opponent cannot tell when they will be immobilized, they will be strangely unable to resist. In other words, when there are corners left in one’s movement it won’t be effective on someone who’s a little bit strong. One ought to use a form that protects them against unexpected surprises. In other words, a posture in which one is prepared to destroy the opponent at any time, although controlling them without damage is best. I would like to faithfully preserve these kind of important points that have been passed down to us through the ages.

When training in Budo, what must really become strong is one’s mind. External strength can not be relied upon. In other words, strength that relies on youth is like steel heated in fire – as time passes it becomes cold. However, internal strength is without limit. Strength is limited, the mind is without limit. For that reason, in the past it was through mental training such as zazen that one created “resolve”. Especially when one stood in a position above others, without mental strength nobody would follow them. O-Sensei also said “Real Aikido begins after one is 60 years old. Until one passes 60 the real strength of their spirit does not emerge.”, and now I really understand the meaning of he was saying.

Q: In society, if one says sixty years old they are talking about retirement age, aren’t they?

A: That’s right. But that’s completely backwards. Also, it’s true that there are no competitions in Aikido, but there are certainly diferences in levels. The reason for that is that one can usually learn the basics of Aikido technique in about three years. However, that is still just the entranceway. The problem is from that point forward. While there are those who progress from that point, there are those who just draw a horizontal line, and those who go into a downward curve.

For that reason, it’s not really a problem of how many years one was with some person. What is needed is intensity of training and a willingness to take things in. If one takes things seriously, anyone can progress with certainty.

Q: I see. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to speak with us today. I will pray for the ever-increasing growth of Tendo-ryu.

Gekkan Hiden 2006, July-August

Published by: Christopher Li – Honolulu, HI

The post Interview with Aikido Shihan Kenji Shimizu – Part 2 appeared first on Aikido Sangenkai Blog.

Was O-Sensei irregular about coming to the dojo?

Yes, he was. When I was actively practicing there he often came and went. When he showed up everyone immediately sat down. At first, I thought that people were being courteous toward him. However, it wasn’t only that. It was also that the practices we were doing were different from what O-Sensei expected us to do. Once he lost his temper at us. No one realized that he had come and he shouted: “What you people are doing is not aikido.” His shout was so powerful it felt like the earth was trembling. He was then in his seventies but his voice nearly pierced our ear drums. Everybody just became quiet and looked gloomy.

“Interview with Kenji Shimizu,” by Stanley Pranin

Kenji Shimizu (清水健二) was born in Fukuoka, Japan in 1940. After starting out with ten years of Judo an acquaintance persuaded him to meet with Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba – impressed with the Founder, he immediately enrolled as one of the last of O-Sensei’s uchi-deshi, in 1963. After the passing of the Founder in 1969 he went on to found his own style of Aikido – Tendo-ryu Aikido (天道流合気道), “School of the Way of Heaven”.

“Tendo” calligraphy

He is the author of “Zen and Aikido” (with Shigeo Kamata) and “Aikido: The Heavenly Road“.

This is the first part of a two part interview with Shimizu Sensei that originally appeared in the July and August 2006 issues of Gekkan Hiden (月刊秘伝 / “Secret Teachings Monthly”), a well known martial arts magazine in Japan.

This interview was also published in a collection of interviews with students of the Founder published in Japanese as 開祖の横顔 (“Profiles of the Founder”) in 2009. There was a short introduction to this work in the article “Morihei Ueshiba – Profiles of the Founder“. A number of English translations of interviews from that collection appeared have appeared previously – Nobuyoshi Tamura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Isoyama Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Shigenobu Okumura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Nobuyuki Watanabe Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Masatake Fujita Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) , Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Kanshu Sunadomari Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Kato Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Yoshio Kuroiwa Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) and Morito Suganuma (Part 1 | Part 2).

Kenji Shimizu takes ukemi for Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba

Interview with Aikido Shihan Kenji Shimizu – Part 1

Even when one pushed on him O-Sensei would not move, not even an inch.

Q: Thank you for coming today. I’ve heard that you turned to Aikido from Judo, how did that happen?

A: I started Judo when I was thirteen years old. From then I trained for about ten years. I liked Judo, so when I entered the university I had the idea that I would like to specialize in Judo as an instructor. It was then that someone advised me “Judo is certainly spreading around the world, but it’s a sport rather than Budo.”. That person had some connection to O-Sensei, and he recommended that I visit him “Now there is a person who is the last Budoka in Japan. At the present time there is no Budoka greater than him! Would you like to meet him?”. At the time I was under the impression that Judo was the best in Japanese Budo, so I wasn’t very enthusiastic, but I became more and more convinced as we spoke. So it was that I was introduced to Morihei Ueshiba O-Sensei.

Q: What was your first impression when meeting the Founder?

A: In any case, he was completely different from the instructors that I had met previously. I remember the feeling of having met one of the ancient warriors that appear in stories. O-Sensei said “Do you want to try it?”. So right there I enrolled as an uchi-deshi. As a matter of fact, I was the last uchi-deshi, you know. That was in Showa year 38 (1963).

Aikikai Hombu ground breaking ceremony – 1966
Morihei Ueshiba and Kisshomaru Ueshiba – center
Kenji Shimizu – back left

Q: And the Founder was around eighty years old at the time?

A: That’s right. But O-Sensei would never tell anybody his age. He would always say “After I passed seventy I forgot how old I was”.

Q: You enrolled as an uchi-deshi from the very beginning?

A: That’s right. Actually, at that time the Aikikai no longer had an uchi-deshi system. O-Sensei also had a policy of taking no more uchi-deshi. In my case it was really a special exception. For that reason I was serious from the moment of enrollment. There was the fact that I had switched from Judo, and that I was in “active service”, but I became a good practice platform for the students. They would try out their Aikido techniques on me. So my wrists really hurt! There were also many times when I applied techniques that there was a kind of strange resistance, my Judo habits would always come to the fore, and I would reflexively throw them. I don’t know who he heard it from, but Osawa Sensei (大澤喜三郎 – Kisaburo Osawa) gave me a scolding – “This isn’t a Judo dojo!”.

Q: How many years were you an uchi-deshi?

A: I was enrolled at the Aikikai for six and a half years. During that period the time that I spent close to O-Sensei receiving his instruction was three years. That is, and it was the same for all of the uchi-deshi, I was was sent here and there to teach. At Hombu I was often asked by Osawa Sensei to teach in his place, and when I was asked I would accept, saying “Yes, Yes…”. When I think about it now, I was really presumptuous, wasn’t I? The other person was an eighth dan instructor, and I was an untalented uchi-deshi, so normally one would say something like “I’m sorry, but it would be impossible for someone such as me to take your place as an instructor”, but I would always just accept lightly. (laughing)

Q: Was there anything special about your teaching at the time?

A: No, there was nothing like that. However, it may have been that O-Sensei liked my instruction. At the time Aikido was in a transitional period. When I enrolled, if one was asked “What do you do? What’s your job?” there was no way that I could reply “Aikido”. Because nobody had heard of it. If I answered “Aikido” then I would always be asked “What’s that?” next. Making that explanation was really tiresome. That was the kind of era that it was.

Q: Was there some about the Founder that especially left you with an impression?

A: Well…there were so many things that left an impression on me…I don’t know where to start. One day he said “Shimizu, are you free?”, and when I answered “Yes” he sat down in a backless chair and said “My back is tight, could you massage it a little?”. At the beginning, when I pushed on his back lightly, he said “What’s this? You don’t have any strength – push harder!”, so I put more strength into it and pushed on his back strongly but O-Sensei didn’t move at all. He just said “Push harder!” so I added even more strength and pushed on his back, but he didn’t move, not an inch. He was the same during training – O-Sensei would hold up his te-gatana (手刀) in kamae and say “OK, try pushing me!”. In any case, no matter how much of a master one is, he was of such an advanced age that one would think that he would fall over if pushed strongly. However, since he would become angry if we pushed lightly we would push with all of our strength. Even so, he wouldn’t move, not an inch. Thinking about it now, I interpret that to mean that he matched the power of his mind and body to the power of nature, and mobility transformed through the unified body resulted in tremendous power.

Taking ukemi for Morihei Ueshiba around 1965-1966

Taking ukemi for O-Sensei felt good.

Q: What did it feel like to be touched by the Founder?

A: At the time he was already of an advanced age, so his body wasn’t all that strongly muscled. But his basic physique was firm. I thought that he must have been incredible when he was young. Outside of Aikido training he almost never displayed his strength in normal circumstances. In terms of energy (気力), he was strong enough to dislocate your back. For example, when he met young people with no sense of manners he would scold them – ”Rude!” – unapologetically. One day he gave a scolding to a taxi driver and the driver, hearing that voice, leaped out of the car without thinking about it. He turned towards me and asked “Who’s that old man?”.

Q: What was your impression of taking ukemi for the Founder during training and demonstrations?

A: It was extremely easy to take ukemi for him. There aren’t many times that one takes ukemi and it feels good, but O-Sensei’s techniques were like that. The techniques didn’t hold one down stiffly, it felt like you would flow right into an immobilization. Well, how one speaks about this depends upon when they became a student or took ukemi, and there are those who say that the were slammed down hard onto the tatami. My personal impression was that O-Sensei’s techniques were soft and beautiful. I remember this even now, a time when O-Sensei was teaching a single individual (Hidehiko Hyoki – 日能英彦). I was taking ukemi, and as soon as Mr. Hyoki took a break I would spot the opening and impolitely start asking questions. One day I asked “Muna-dori Nikyo is very difficult, isn’t it? When the opponent grasps my lapel firmly I can’t get their hand turned back.”, whereupon O-Sensei’s face seemed to say “What!?” and he said “Well then, grasp my lapel as strongly as you can!”. I grasped his lapel, rolling it in my hand, and O-Sensei turned my hand and the lapel back together in a circle and applied Nikyo to me in an instant. I was really surprised. It’s not the Egg of Columbus, but I guess that when one is shown something like this they think “Indeed!”. But we would always be thrown simply with those methods that wouldn’t normally come to mind. Applied variations. They must have been the results of his long training. My feeling about him was like the saying “Bushido scoffs at knowledge for the sake of knowledge. Knowledge is not the primary goal, it is just a step towards gaining wisdom.”.

Aikikai Hombu groundbreaking demonstration – 1966
Kisaburo Osawa and Kisshomaru Ueshiba, back left

Q: As an uchi-deshi, did you often accompany O-Sensei as an otomo when he went out?

A: Yes, but to be honest, there were many difficult tasks involved. In any case, O-Sensei would always leave earlier than the schedule called for when he went out. From an hour before he would start saying “Not yet?”. I would try to manipulate the numbers a little and say “About thirty more minutes”, but a short time later he’d start saying “Not yet?” again. This would continue four or five times. For example, when we went to Iwama we’d be on the train platform waiting at least an hour early. Then…he’d start with the repetitions of “Not yet?”. To put it simply, he didn’t like to leave himself without some margin for error. But he left himself with a little too much margin. (laughing) On the other hand, I assisted him many times in the bath while we were traveling, and he would never stay in the bath for long. Just as I thought that he had entered the bath he’d be hurrying out. So there was no time to wash his back! I’ve often been told that the bath is a place that leaves vulnerable openings, so perhaps that is a feeling that he shared.

Q: Since the Founder was a pre-war Budoka I think that he must have also had some violent techniques, were you taught any of those?

A: O-Sensei put those aside and we were not taught them. Perhaps it could be said that he kept them for himself. During training O-Sensei would become angry if tried to watch the outer surface of his movements. “Move more! You’re not moving!”, he would say. In any case, he would absolutely not forgive training that did not fit his design. When he became angry he could be extremely threatening. For that reason, I think that Aikido from that time must have been very strong.

“Training was centered around Ni-Dai Doshu Kisshomaru Ueshiba”
Kenji Shimizu – second row left

Uke studies the nage’s kokyu

Q: You studied Judo for ten years before beginning Aikido, were there times that your Judo experience was useful?

A: Yes, there were. Of course, the need for strength in the legs and hips is the same. Judo and Aikido were both originally jujutsu, so they have many points in common. Even when my Judo training could not be useful, it was never wasted. However, in Judo one always pairs with an opponent and then grabs and destabilizes them in order to throw or hold them down. Aikido starts from a greater distance and first separates from the opponent’s attack through tai-sabaki. Even understanding these differences intellectually, at first my body didn’t really follow along. And one more thing. I took a lot of ukemi for O-Sensei, and was made to teach a lot of beginners – I believe that it was because of these two things that I was able to improve. In Judo if one is thrown then they have lost, so there is extremely high resistance to being thrown. In the case of Aikido, if one cannot take ukemi for techniques then they will not improve. That is to say, in Aikido kokyu is important, so learning the kokyu of the uke is also connected to the kokyu of the nage. In ukemi, moving after the technique has become fully effective is too slow. If one practiced Aikido in a competitive format..first you would destroy your body. For that reason, one takes ukemi in order to protect their body in the instant that the technique becomes effective. I had some resistance to that kind of ukemi in the beginning. But as the training continued I think that it gradually sunk in. Ukemi is for protecting oneself, not for just falling on one’s own – if the ukemi does not match the opponent’s kokyu then it has no meaning. For that reason, we are very picky about ukemi in my dojo these days.

Q: What does it mean to do ukemi that matches the opponent’s kokyu?

A: For example, if the wind blows then the branches of a tree will bend, right? When the wind passes they return to their former state. But the branches won’t bend on their own if there isn’t any wind. Ukemi in Aikido is the same, it is cooperative, but you can’t just fall down on your own. I came to understand that from teaching large beginners, and from taking a lot of ukemi for O-Sensei, Ni-Dai Doshu and many other instructors in the beginning. No matter how experienced a shihan might be, if they had poor ukemi then O-Sensei was strict with them. After all, he attached great importance to matching kokyu. I was a new participant, so I certainly had some resistance to instigating the falls myself, but I became used to following the movement of the opponent’s throws. For that reason, when O-Sensei applied techniques he must have felt some of that feedback. When I taught O-Sensei almost never gave me direction, and I think that this may have been the reason for that.

Q: In Judo and Aikido the ukemi is different, did you have to relearn things?

A: It got better naturally. I took a lot of ukemi for O-Sensei, and although he sometimes said “Yes, like that” with regards to my ukemi, he never said “That’s no good”.

Continued in Part 2…

Published by: Christopher Li – Honolulu, HI

The post Interview with Aikido Shihan Kenji Shimizu – Part 1 appeared first on Aikido Sangenkai Blog.

What I try to keep in mind is to follow O-Sensei’s teachings and philosophy, at least my understanding and interpretation of his teachings. I want to convey what O-Sensei himself taught to Aikido students. The most important thing, as O-Sensei used to say, is don’t get injured, don’t do wrong things, and don’t force techniques. Rather than show how strong you are, cultivate each other, and work together to show Aikido’s good techniques. This is how we become good Aikidoists. This is what O-Sensei said.

O-Sensei also used to say something like all the people in the world should work, hand in hand, to create or develop a peaceful world. This is how we help society to work to achieve the idea of this kind of world. I try to do this through Aikido. When I have a chance, I always tell this to Aikido students.

Interview with Morito Suganuma Shihan
USAF Eastern Region Summer Camp – August 2003

Living and training in Japan we would often say “Kobayashi in the east and Suganuma in the west” – referring to the large networks of Aikido schools established by Yasuo Kobayashi Sensei in eastern Japan and Morito Suganuma Sensei in western Japan.

In 1970, shortly after Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba passed away, Suganuma Sensei was dispatched to Fukuoka by Ni-Dai Doshu Kisshomaru Ueshiba as the Aikikai’s representative for the Kyushu area of Japan. Today the network of schools that he established boasts some 70 dojo and more than 4,000 students.

This is the second part of a two part interview with Suganuma Sensei that originally appeared in the January 2005 issue of Gekkan Hiden (月刊秘伝 / “Secret Teachings Monthly”), a well known martial arts magazine in Japan. You may wish to read Part 1 before reading this section.

This interview was also published in a collection of interviews with students of the Founder published in Japanese as 開祖の横顔 (“Profiles of the Founder”) in 2009. There was a short introduction to this work in the article “Morihei Ueshiba – Profiles of the Founder“. A number of English translations of interviews from that collection appeared have appeared previously – Nobuyoshi Tamura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Isoyama Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Shigenobu Okumura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Nobuyuki Watanabe Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Masatake Fujita Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) , Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Kanshu Sunadomari Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Kato Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) and Yoshio Kuroiwa Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2).

Morito Suganuma (菅沼守人) Sensei

Interview with Aikido Shihan Morito Suganuma – Part 2

“Shiai” (試合 – “competition) is “shiai” (死合 – ”joining in death”) – an exchange of lives.

Q: Were there many young people among the students at that time?

A: Yes, there were. The Giants coach Hiroshi Arakawa (*Translator’s note – 荒川博, mentioned here）, Hiroshi Hiraoka (*Translator’s note: 平岡煕 – the “father of Japanese baseball”, mentioned here), and Sunao Sonoda (園田直), who would later become the Minister of Health, Labor and Welfare, also received instruction from O-Sensei. Coach Arakawa was extremely enthusiastic about his training and would run to training in the morning (laughing), we would train together. Arakawa-san published a book called “Can you become Sadaharu Oh?” (君は王貞治になれるか), and most of what he wrote there are things from Aikido. It must have had a great influence on the way that he thought about baseball.

Coach Hiroshi Arakawa watches Sadaharu Oh practice cutting – 1964

“Can you become Sadaharu Oh?” (君は王貞治になれるか)

Q: Is there something in particular that you remember from your days as an uchi-deshi?

A: Sensei would speak very quickly in a typical Wakayama accent. The long time students were used to it, but it was difficult for me to understand. One day in the midst of a discussion at the dojo he directed me to do something, but he spoke so quickly that I couldn’t really understand what he meant. I could only understand that he said “go get something“. (laughing) But O-Sensei didn’t like to be asked to repeat himself, so when I cocked my head in puzzlement he shouted at me “read the situation!” (気を読め!). So I said “yes”, but when I brought the usual scroll with the symbolic portrait that I talked about earlier he yelled “Not that!” angrily. (laughing) But after that his mood shifted suddenly and he said “I used to have a body like this…”. When O-Sensei became angry he would become really angry, but he would cool down swiftly and he never held a grudge. His mood changes were sudden.

Q: “Read the situation” seems to be something that the Founder would teach…

A: That’s right. In any case, one really couldn’t ask “what was that?” while he was speaking. I was told, “When you’re told to do something you must react immediately, if you can’t do that then you’ll never be a fully qualified Budoka!”. One can’t just ask carelessly “Sensei, what did you mean?”. That was really a major blunder.

Also, and I remember this clearly even now, he was very strict about time. At demonstrations, even from quite a bit of time before, he would start asking “Are we still OK? Will we make it?”. Also when we would go out someplace he’d say “Always leave with the intention of riding on the previous train”. If there was a train that left at exactly nine o’clock then we’d have to be on the platform in time for the train that left just before that one. My sempai would say “Ichi Kisha Mae” (一汽車前 – “One Train Ahead”). Since one never knew what might happen on the way there we would always make sure that there was extra time – even now I still teach this lesson.

Morito Suganuma and Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba wait for a train

Q: Now that you mention it, I remember seeing a photograph of you holding O-Sensei’s bag on a train platform…

A: Yes, I often accompanied O-Sensei as an “otomo” (“attendant”) when he went out. As I recall now, there was one year that we went to Iwama near the Obon season. Since the steam train was crowded I boarded first and went to look for an open seat, but somehow I lost sight of O-Sensei. (laughing) At the time I hadn’t been an uchi-deshi for very long, and I thought “Oh no, what a disaster!” – though I looked left and right, back and forth, I couldn’t find him anywhere. After a while, at a loss as to what to do, there was nothing else left but to call Hombu Dojo – “Idiot! O-Sensei’s already come back!”. (laughing) I got a vigorous scolding later on.

Q: (laughing) I there something that the Founder said that was especially memorable?

A: One day during morning training one of the beginners said “O-Sensei, instead of always doing the same things, could you teach us some of the secrets every once in a while?”. As I was thinking “he’s going to get angry now…”, O-Sensei just laughed and smiled “I show everybody the secrets everyday”, he said. In other words, the secrets are not any special kind of thing, he meant “the secrets are in the day-to-day repetition”. When I heard that I thought “that’s right!”. Every day’s training was certainly a repetition of basics, but it is because they are important that we repeat them. “When you are lost, return to the basics”, some people say, and even today I keep those two things in mind when I train.

Q: Was there some times that the Founder became particularly angry?

A: Rather than “angry”, I would say that his tone of voice became strongly remonstrative, and that was with regards to competitive contests that tested techniques against one another. “Shiai (“competition”) is “shiai” (“joining in death”), it means an exchange of lives, so it’s not something to participate in lightly for the comparison of strength.”, he would always say. O−Sensei himself lived through the scenes of many battles, so it may be that he was unable to approve of contests for the comparison of strength in this peaceful era.

Aikido’s youth power – from right:
Norihiko Ishihashi Shihan, Nobuyuki Watanabe Shihan, Morito Suganuma Shihan
Hiroshi Arakawa, Kenji Shimizu Shihan, Minoru Kurita Shihan

‘Serious’ means to tighten the gaps

Q: I have heard that you also practice Zen?

A: Our family originally belonged to the Soto Zen Buddhist sect, so I had that connection, and by chance I had a connection to the Zen Master Shinryu Umeda (梅田信隆 – former director of Soto Zen Buddhism), so I became a student in Showa year 56 (1981).

Calligraphy by Shinryu Umeda
「無心なれば大道に帰す」 – “Mushin nareba daido ni kisu”
“Having no mind you return to the Great Way”
Meaning that a mind free of desire and attachments
is the mind of enlightenment.

Q: How is your training going?

A: I have learned many things from both Zen and Umeda Zenji. When I first began I was told “value the present”. “There is no yesterday or tomorrow, what is important is right now. The continuation of the present becomes your life, so make the present the most important.” – I remember those words even now.

Q: What is important for you in the transmission of Aikido as Budo?

A: The technical is important, of course, but first what is important is one’s mental attitude. One’s everyday speech and conduct, their attitude – the importance of “one strike with the hand, one throw with the legs” (一拳手一投足). Also, in the old dojo one day O-Sensei suddenly asked me “Suganuma, do you understand what ‘serious’ is”?” (真面目 – “majime”) – “‘Serious’ means to tighten the gaps – because idiots leave them open.”, I was told. At the time I didn’t really get it, but now I think that it is to correct oneself, regulate oneself, and that from this stems mastery of the etiquette of Budo – that the carriage of one’s body becomes without openings.

Q: In the later years of the Founder the words “softness” and “harmony” were often used, were those also used to make one think of Aikido in terms of Budo?

A: I think that for O-Sensei Aikido was always Budo. Sometimes when he looked in on training he would see the students throwing in Kokyu-nage and say “People don’t fall over that easily!”. (laughing) Of course, forced struggling, or throwing with needless violence is just dangerous. Osawa Sensei (大澤喜三郎 – Kisaburo Osawa) would say “Strong and stupid are different. One’s sensitivity cannot be stupid.”. For that reason, just falling even though the technique is not working is not training. I think that we must sense each other’s power precisely when training so that we can develop together and knead our bodies.

Daruma and calligraphy by Morito Suganuma
「ころがせ、転がせ、まだ角がる」
“I roll and I roll, but I still have corners”

Q: The word “knead” (練る) is also used in arts like Chinese Kempo (*Translator’s note: often in the sense of “temper” or “harden”), how do you understand the meaning here?

A: For example, something that you would want to knead, like a rice cake. We take the individual grains of rice, knead them and knead them, and make them into a sticky rice cake. Human beings bodies are the same way, one takes the disparate pieces and kneads them through Aikido practice until a soft, strong, unified body is made, that is the image. For that reason, one ought not to think about controlling some joint in training – I think that it is important that both the uke and the tori use their entire bodies, sense each other’s power, and knead each other.

Q: That’s a very easy to understand example.

A: That was one of O-Sensei’s teachings, to respect the principles of nature – in other words, not to struggle in one’s movements. When one struggles during their movements it becomes what I mentioned before, we injure each other. Also, not to make unnecessary movements. Not to make one’s training uneven. In other words, not to suddenly stop by training recklessly. I call these the “three nothings” (三無) – no struggling (無理), no unevenness (むら), as much as possible using no waste (無駄).

Q: The “three nothings”? You certainly seem very relaxed, to be speaking like this.

A: Out in society when one says that they are a Budoka it has a strict or frightening image, but I don’t like that very much. In the dojo, and during every day life, I just want to act normally. Because it’s less exhausting that way. (laughing)

O-Sensei often quote Kiichi Hogen (*Translator’s note: see “Kiichi Hogen and the Secret of Aikido“), and this is one of the things that he would say:

「来たるを迎え、去るは送る、対すれば相和す。五・五の十、一・九の十、二・八の十。大は方処を絶し、細は微塵に入る。活殺自在」

If it comes meet it, if it leaves, send it on its way, if it opposes then unify it. 5 and 5 are 10, 1 and 9 are 10, 2 and 8 are 10. The large suppresses all, the small enters the microscopic. The power of life and death.

I believe that I would like to create that kind of feeling and that kind of a body.

Gekkan Hiden, January 2005

Published by: Christopher Li – Honolulu, HI

The post Interview with Aikido Shihan Morito Suganuma – Part 2 appeared first on Aikido Sangenkai Blog.

Morito Suganuma Sensei faces dueling jugglers in Hilo Hawaii – 2013

Morito Suganuma (菅沼守人) was born in Fukushima, Japan in 1942. A regional pole vaulting champion in high school, he moved on to studying Aikido with Nobuyoshi Tamura in 1963 and then entered Aikikai Hombu Dojo in 1967 as one of the last uchi-deshi to train there under Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba.

He is the head of Aikido Shoheijuku, which has a large number of Aikido dojo centered around the Fukuoka area of Kyushu, Japan, and was promoted to 8th Dan by the Aikikai in January 2001.

This is the first part of a two part interview with Suganuma Sensei that originally appeared in the January 2005 issue of Gekkan Hiden (月刊秘伝 / “Secret Teachings Monthly”), a well known martial arts magazine in Japan.

This interview was also published in a collection of interviews with students of the Founder published in Japanese as 開祖の横顔 (“Profiles of the Founder”) in 2009. There was a short introduction to this work in the article “Morihei Ueshiba – Profiles of the Founder“. A number of English translations of interviews from that collection appeared have appeared previously – Nobuyoshi Tamura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Isoyama Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Shigenobu Okumura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Nobuyuki Watanabe Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Masatake Fujita Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) , Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Kanshu Sunadomari Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Kato Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) and Yoshio Kuroiwa Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2).

Morito Suganuma (菅沼守人) Sensei

Interview with Aikido Shihan Morito Suganuma – Part 1

The Founder’s body was extremely soft.

Q: First, I would like to ask what first inspired you to learn Aikido.

A: At first it was because I read an article about O-Sensei in a magazine when I was in my sixth year of elementary school. After that, I enrolled at the physical education department (*Suganuma Sensei was a pole vaulter) at Juntendo University (順天堂大学 ), but I got injured and ended up enrolling at Asia University (亜細亜大学). There I was able to see the training of the Aikido club with my own eyes, and that was how I began Aikido. That was in Showa year 38 (1963).

Q: What was the instruction like at the university?

A: It was Nobuyoshi Tamura Sensei. Now he is teaching in France.

Q: When did you enroll at Hombu Dojo?

A: I enrolled as an uchi-deshi when I graduated in Showa year 42 (1967). Those who were there around the same time were Seishiro Endo Sensei (遠藤征四郎) and Masatake Fujita (藤田昌武). O-Sensei was 84 years old at the time, I learned from O-Sensei for the next two years, until he passed away.

Q: You were living in the dojo, not commuting from outside?

A: That was just at the time when they were rebuilding the dojo, so we rented rooms nearby. When they rebuilt the dojo they first began with O-Sensei’s living quarters, so O-Sensei would go back and forth between Iwama and Hombu Dojo, and would stay in the office of the old dojo. At those times we would massage O-Sensei’s fingers and shoulders until he went to sleep. So we would be with him the entire time from when he arose in the early morning until he retired in the evenings. We would wash his back in the bath.

Q: What was O-Sensei’s body like at the time?

A: When I saw him in the bath the muscles of his upper body were drooping down, and O-Sensei would joke “Look, wings!”. (laughing) In the past that had all been solid and firm, so I think that he must have had really thick arms and an extremely good physique.

Eiji Tamura’s drawing of Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba

Q: Now that you mention it, there is a scroll with a drawing of O-Sensei’s body, isn’t there?

A: That was drawn by a famous artist, but that wasn’t a direct sketch, it was based on the artist’s image of O-Sensei with power in his body, a kind of symbolic image. When I touched his body in the bath his muscles were extremely soft, and when we did flexibility exercises before practice O-Sensei would stretch his body with the students for about thirty minutes. He was so soft that one could hardly believe that he was an old man of more than eighty years. When we did what is now called “Funakogi Undo” (船漕ぎ運動 – “rowing exercise”), but was previously called “Ame-no-torifune” (天之鳥船 – “Heavenly Bird Boat”), his movements were extremely soft.

Q: Funakogi Undo is an exercise unique to Aikido, isn’t it. What is its actual meaning?

A: One rows a boat in order to move forward, keeping their eyes turned towards their goal. O-Sensei often called this goal “A world of harmony and unity” (和と統一の世界), in other words, a world without conflict. Then as now, violence and war continue, but I believe that the meaning was for “everybody to row together” with the goal of asking for assistance through Aikido training that a world would come where all of the world’s people could join hands with each other.

Morito Suganuma demonstrating warm-up exercises

Q: Is that also the reason that we do warm-up exercises together?

A: Yes, it is. I think that this is an excellent method of creating the unified body that we seek in Aikido, in other words, a body in which the hands, waist and legs are made to operate together.

Q: Did you get concrete explanations from the Founder?

A: From a state in which the hands are open, close them firmly and pull them backwards. Conversely, there are exercises in which one thrusts the hands forward while closing and then opens them while pulling backwards. Also, we always practiced what was called “Furitama” (振魂 – “spirit shaking”), in which we clasped our hands in front of our abdomen and shook them. At this time the right hand was on the bottom and the left hand was on the top – in Kototama (言霊) the right represents the body and the left hand represents the mind. We were told “Place your mind on the foundation (the body)” (土台「身体」の上に霊を載せる).

Q: Are Funakogi Undo and Furitama practiced together as a set?

A: Yes, that’s right. O-Sensei would always do three sets, with each set consisting of three repititions of Funakogi Undo and one repitition of Furitama as a set.

A Hombu Dojo Bonenkai (Year-end Party). From right to left:
Masando Sasaki Shihan, Minoru Kurita Shihan, Shizuo Imaizumi Shihan
Yoshio Kuroiwa Shihan, Seishiro Endo Shihan, Yasuo Kobayashi Shihan
Morito Suganuma Shihan, Akira Tohei Shihan, Nobuyuki Watanabe Shihan
Nobuyoshi Tamura Shihan, Seijuro Masuda Shihan, Koretoshi Maruyama Shihan

Drawn into effortless technique.

Q: What was the Founder’s daily life and training like at the time?

A: When the current dojo was completed there was a simple Kamidana in O-Sensei’s room, so before each practice he would would always chant the Norito (Shinto prayers). Then he would go to the dojo. O-Sensei was someone who possessed a unique presence, and just by entering the dojo everything would stop – one sensed some kind of aura emitting from his entire body. The training was extremely severe, but there was kindness in that severity. For example, he was extremely skilled at letting you know where you ought to be, he was very careful about that kind of thing.

Q: What were your impressions of actually taking ukemi for the Founder?

A: O-Sensei’s techniques were completely effortless. Even when one was thrown the ukemi had a good feeling. It felt as if one were being absorbed. Even when it is the same technique, when one receives it from someone who has not mastered it there are odd times when there is pain and one has to endure certain things, but there was none of that. His movements were truly effortless. I was fortunate to have been able to receive O-Sensei’s techniques.

Q: I have heard that the Founder’s techniques were extremely fast…

A: Yes, they were fast. There are probably not very many people who can move that quickly at that age. During tai-sabaki his entire body would move in an instant – it was the same when he was using a staff or a sword.

Q: Did he use many weapons?

A: During practice, in addition to staff and sword, he would also use a folding fan. This may have also been used in place of a tessen (鉄扇 – “iron ribbed fan”), but O-Sensei always carried a folding fan and would often use it to instantly control opponents coming to strike with a sword.

Suganuma Sensei demonstrates Atemi in Irimi-nage

Q: I have certainly seen many photos of demonstration in which a folding fan was used to control a sword.

A: That’s right, those are movements that can also be used with a tessen or with a short sword. Also, he often demonstrated atemi with the folding fan. At the same time as he controlled his opponent’s attack in an instant, he would thrust with the folding fan, saying “Look – you enter here!”. For example, within the flowing movement of Irimi-nage there are a number of places where atemi can be inserted, but it’s so fast that they are difficult to understand, so he would explain them with the folding fan.

Demonstrating with a folding fan
Nobuyoshi Tamura taking ukemi for Morihei Ueshiba O-Sensei
McKinley High School Aikido demonstration in 1961, Honolulu Hawaii

Q: I see. In your case, since you came in with the viewpoint of a competitor in the pole vault, didn’t you feel that there was some “vagueness” in Aikido?

A: I did feel that way sometimes. (laughing) However, during training in Kokyu-ho when O-Sensei grabbed both my wrists I was instantly unable to move. At the time O-Sensei was 158 centimers tall (5’2″) and he weighed less than sixty kilos (132 lbs), but just by holding me lightly I was completely unable to move. While actually touching hands with that O-Sensei and my sempai I began to feel “there’s a magnitude of difference”. For that reason I thought “I want to be like that someday” and that yearning grew stronger.

Q: There was some power other than just weight, wasn’t there?

A: It wasn’t a matter of my wrist hurting, or something like that. It felt as if he used his entire body so efficiently that my center was controlled. Things like Nikyo are certainly techniques that are effective against the wrists, but I think that is a technique that takes one part of your opponent and controls their entire body. So, by just applying a small amount of pain they become unable to move.

Q: One often hears that the technique of the Founder Ueshiba in his later years was extremely soft…

A: It wasn’t just being soft. It felt as if in each instant he would be able to move his body freely, and while there were times in which one felt as if they were being absorbed while being thrown, there were also times when one was held down firmly in place.

Q: So that is “complete freedom” (自由自在)? When one watches films of the Founder in his younger days one can see him holding down people firmly…

A: There are also some where he appears to run around in a rampage. (laughing) But I believe that O-Sensei’s techniques did not depart from the principles of nature. He moved as his mind directed and that became technique.

Q: I think that it must also be different depending upon the era during which one learned the Aikido transmitted by the Founder.

A: I think that is also an issue, but in the end I think that what is important is how each of the Shihan following him took in what they were given. Even Shihan who trained during the same era have different kinds of movement, and I don’t think that one can say which is correct and which is mistaken. If you have ten people none of them will be the same, I think it is the same as that.

Continued in Part 2…

Published by: Christopher Li – Honolulu, HI

The post Interview with Aikido Shihan Morito Suganuma – Part 1 appeared first on Aikido Sangenkai Blog.

Yoshio Kuroiwa Sensei was one of the most original and innovative students at the post-war Aikikai Hombu Dojo, often integrating movements from his extensive knowledge of boxing into his Aikido.  One of the strongest practitioners at the post-war Aikikai Hombu Dojo, his reputation led to an attempt by Gozo Shioda to recruit him into the Yoshinkan. Although he ultimately refused Shioda’s offer, he also refused all Aikikai rank promotions past sixth dan and gradually distanced himself from the post-Morihei Ueshiba Aikikai organization.

He was a participant in the first Aikido Journal Friendship Demonstration, along with Kanshu Sunadomari, Mitsugi Saotome, Morihiro Saito, Shoji Nishio and Yasuo Kobayashi, and published two articles in the Aikido Journal magazine: Training and Cognition and A Common Sense Look At Aikido.

If you are interested in Kuroiwa Sensei you may also with to read Ellis Amdur’s tribute to his passing from AikiWeb – In Memory of Kuroiwa Yoshio. In a separate interview Ellis also spoke about some of his recollections of Kuroiwa Sensei:

I particularly liked Kuroiwa Yoshio Sensei. He started training around 1954. He was six months junior to Kato Hiroshi Sensei, who broke his arm on the first class (laughs). Kuroiwa Sensei told me that Kato Sensei’s mother dragged him by the ear to his house to apologize to his mother. Kuroiwa Sensei was an interesting man; after World War II, there was a return to normality and boxing came up again. He probably fought over 200 bouts with no weight classes. Unlike a lot of the fellows who became Shihan at Hombu, he was not a middle class bourgeois, he came from Asakusabashi, in downtown Tokyo. He was a tough kid and he had that kind of anger that poor kids sometimes have. He used to walk around and pick fights with strong-looking high school or college students, knock them out, and steal their school badges as trophies. He took up Aikido when he realized that his ways were probably not the best for his own safety, hoping that Ueshiba Sensei might help him straighten himself up. The specificity of his practice was that he linked all of his techniques to boxing, not in terms of hitting but by putting every Aikido technique in a framework of hooks or uppercuts, never extending his arms, everything being a spiral on a figure-eight frame. For the rest of my Aikido time, he was my main influence.

This is the first part of a two part interview with Yoshio Kuroiwa that originally appeared in the January 2006 issue of Gekkan Hiden (月刊秘伝 / “Secret Teachings Monthly”), a well known martial arts magazine in Japan.

This interview was also published in a collection of interviews with students of the Founder published in Japanese as 開祖の横顔 (“Profiles of the Founder”) in 2009. There was a short introduction to this work in the article “Morihei Ueshiba – Profiles of the Founder“. A number of English translations of interviews from that collection appeared have appeared previously – Nobuyoshi Tamura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Isoyama Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Shigenobu Okumura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Nobuyuki Watanabe Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Masatake Fujita Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) , Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Kanshu Sunadomari Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) and Hiroshi Kato Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2).

Yoshio Kuroiwa, left, at a Matsuri – Nobuyoshi Tamura second from right

Interview with Aikido Shihan Yoshio Kuroiwa – Part 1

The Exhilarating Feeling of a Punch

Q: You were originally a boxer, how did you start boxing in the first place?

A: Well, none of my motives were pure. (laughing) Around the time of my second year in junior high school three no-goods took me into an alleyway in Jimbo-cho. Just as I thought “Whoa, I’m in trouble” the guy who was in front of me turned around to hit me and they took my money. I got angry and thought “No matter what, I’ll pay them back!”, so I cut apart a Kendo tsuba and made a set of brass knuckles. When I think about it now I wonder why I did that, though. (laughing) So…I wandered around the area where my money was taken, and after about three days the same guys came by and said “You, come here!”. They took me down that same alleyway! I thought “Here it comes!” and slipped on the brass knuckles in my pocket as I walked. When they turned around this time I smacked them, the guy in front wobbled and fell right over and the other two guys panicked. There wasn’t anything as exhilarating as the feeling of that punch. (laughing) I couldn’t forget that feeling, so I ended up joining a boxing gym.

Q: It was that exhilarating? (laughing)

A: Yes, even now after sixty years have passed I only remember bits and pieces. (laughing)

Q: Did you have difficulties after joining the boxing gym?

A: Of course, once you learn it you start wanting to use it. (laughing) At that time there were street vendors lining both sides of Ginza Dori, from Kyobashi to Shinbashi Nana-chome. There were a lot of different kinds of people walking around there, scruffy university students and others. When you looked those kinds of people in the face they would say “What the XXX are you looking at!?”. When that happened I would slip on the thin leather gloves that I had brought with me and follow them.

Q: So you would do them there? (laughing)

A: They all fell with one blow. (laughing)

Q: Was that a from a right cross?

A: No, it was a short left hook. That’s because when I talk about fighting it’s about close quarters combat. A short punch from the leading hand was the best.

Masatatsu Oyama with Masahiko Kimura
from “Aikido and Judo – Interview with Gozo Shioda and Masahiko Kimura“

Q: Oyama (Masatatsu) Sensei (大山 倍達, Founder of Kyokushin Karate) also said “In fighting it’s the short punch”, that’s the same, isn’t it?

A: Is that right? (laughing) I was stupid back then, so I would collect trophies from each one that I defeated. I really collected a lot! (laughing)

Is Aikido a cross between Karate and Judo?

Q: What was your reason for starting Aikido?

A: That wasn’t pure either. I was riding a bicycle about the time that I graduated from high school when a bicycle with a side-car that belonged to a bamboo pole shop came out from the side, and one of the bamboo poles stuck into the front wheel of my bicycle. Thanks to that I went tumbling forward with my bicycle. The onlookers gathered instantly – they were the ones who dashed out, I was the damaged party, but the other guy got the wrong idea. He swaggered towards me and grabbed me by the collar and said “Where were you looking you idiot!?”. When I blew my top and smacked him he fell right down, and then the police came and took me away. (laughing)

Q: (laughing)

A: Thankfully, the people around said “it was the bamboo pole shop’s fault”, so it all somehow worked out. Of course, the other guy was covered in blood, so in the end I had to pay for his medical expenses. Then I thought “I have to find a way to defeat an opponent without striking them”, and as I was considering things like Judo I came across a newspaper article introducing Aikido. In the article it said that Aikido was “a cross between Karate and Judo”, and I thought “that’s it!”. (laughing)

Q: (laughing) What happened with your boxing then?

A: By then I had damaged my eyesight, so I had already quit boxing. At that time one had to have an introduction in order to begin Aikido, so the reporter from Mainichi Housou (毎日放送) who was responsible for the article said “go ahead and use my name”, and that was the first time I went to see it. As an aside, I was already aware of the name “Aikido” at the time. There had been a small ad for an Aikido seminar in the Yomiuri Shimbun (読売新聞) in Showa year 23 (1948). I couldn’t decide whether to go or not right up until the seminar, but in the end I didn’t go. I didn’t really know what Aikido was then, so I thought that it must be some kind of Kiai-jutsu. I should have started back then. (laughing)

Q: Do you remember the first time that you went to the dojo?

A: I remember. I went there after lunch, so nobody was there. When I called out “Excuse me…” a person come out shouting “What is it!?” in a frightening voice. When I said “I’d like to become a student” they said “Do you know what Aikido is?”. Then when I said “it’s something like a cross between Karate and Judo” they got angry. (laughing) They made me sit in seiza at the side of the dojo where they hung the Keiko-gi and lectured me for about an hour – “Aikido connects Heaven and Earth…”. I couldn’t understand it at all – that was Sadateru Arikawa Sensei (有川定輝).

At the old Aikikai Hombu Dojo in 1959 – from right:
Morihei Ueshiba O-Sensei, Kisshomaru Ueshiba, Nobuyoshi Tamura,
Masamichi Noro, Yoshio Kuroiwa, Kazuo Chiba

Special Responses for Dojo Storming

Q: Who was in the dojo at that time?

A: There weren’t that many people there. The main people were Shigenobu Okumura (奥村繁信), Koichi Tohei (藤平光一), Kisaburo Osawa (大澤喜三郎), Sadateru Arikawa (有川定輝), Seigo Yamaguchi (山口清吾), Shoji Nishio (西尾昭二), Hiroshi Kato (加藤弘) and Nobuyoshi Tamura (田村信喜).

Q: There were some distinguished faces, weren’t there? I’ve heard that at the time you refined many techniques against dojo storming…did the other instructors do the same?

A: Yes, they did. After all, it was something of a brutal time. We had the kind of grit that said “No matter who comes we will protect the nameboard”. Noro (Masamichi) san (now head of “Ki no Michi” in Paris) said “When you grab their wrist you crush them right there”, and would swing a 10kg iron staff – he’d break his hand grips about once a month. Tada Sensei would swing the octagonal staff from the dojo with one hand. One person said “bite down on them and don’t let go even if lightning strikes”. (laughing)

Yoshio Kuroiwa’s signature koshi-nage – straight down

Q: And you had throwing techniques would drop them on their heads?

A: That’s right. Because it’s no use throwing them if they just get up again. I thought that dropping them on their heads would be the best way to damage them. In the end, though, I didn’t use that even once. Part of me feels good about that, and part of me regrets it. While I was training I’d think things like “If someone really comes (to break the dojo) will I be able to use it?”. There’s also the chance that one will be defeated.

Q: So part of you was also frightened?

A: It was frightening! It was frightening, but one couldn’t run away. That was the kind of time that it was. That’s why people who entered then never give up, their mental attitude is different – we had the feeling that “We must protect the dojo and build it up!”. By the way, people who started after that time didn’t have that same sense of impending danger, so a percentage of them just ended up quitting.

Gekkan Hiden January 2006

Continued in Part 2…

Published by: Christopher Li – Honolulu, HI

The post Interview with Aikido Shihan Yoshio Kuroiwa – Part 1 appeared first on Aikido Sangenkai Blog.

 

Hiroshi Kato was born in Tokyo on March 24th 1935, and entered Aikikai Hombu Dojo in 1954 at the age of 18.

He was one of the early post-war Aikido students at Aikikai Hombu Dojo, but chose to work as a printer rather than making a full time career of the martial art. Known for his strict self-training in Aikido, in his younger years he would practice weapons by himself through the night, greet the sunrise the next morning, and then head off to work at the print shop.

In 1975 he formed an informal practice group at the Suginami Ward Koenji Gymnasium near his home, and then in April 1987 he established the Suginami Aikikai (杉並合気会) dojo in the Suginami Ward of Tokyo, Japan as a branch dojo of the Aikikai Foundation.

This is the second part of a two part interview with Hiroshi Kato that originally appeared in the April 2007 issue of Gekkan Hiden (月刊秘伝 / “Secret Teachings Monthly”), a well known martial arts magazine in Japan. You may wish to read Part 1 of this interview before reading this section

This interview was also published in a collection of interviews with students of the Founder published in Japanese as 開祖の横顔 (“Profiles of the Founder”) in 2009. There was a short introduction to this work in the article “Morihei Ueshiba – Profiles of the Founder“. A number of English translations of interviews from that collection appeared have appeared previously – Nobuyoshi Tamura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Isoyama Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Shigenobu Okumura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Nobuyuki Watanabe Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Masatake Fujita Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) , Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) and Kanshu Sunadomari (Part 1 | Part 2).

Iwama Taisai, 1965
Hiroshi Kato, front right; Masatake Fujita, back right

Interview with Aikido Shihan Hiroshi Kato – Part 2

That feeling that I absorbed, that is my treasure.

Q: I think that the “Harmony” (和) that we were just discussing is related to the “discarding oneself” of spiritual training (“gyo”). Does an image of the Founder come into your mind at those times?

A: Certainly it does – O-Sensei’s image comes forth even while I’m sleeping, and the intensity is shattering!

Q: How does he appear?

A: Hmm….he appears standing up. From there many things flow through my mind – so you see, inside of me O-Sensei has not yet passed away. I am happy just to have him beside me.

Q: He has a quite cantankerous image, doesn’t he?

A: Yes, that’s because he’d suddenly become angry. But he’d soon be smiling. (laughing)

Q: What kind of things did he become angry about?

A: When he was in a bad mood, about anything. (laughing) But he was always watching. When we trained there were some people who were very strong, and when it became too much trouble I would fly into a fall whether or not I was touched. When that happened I would hear his voice yelling “Just falling over when you’re touched is no way to train!”. He was able to sense when our intensity had fled. But he made no other explanations, so how to interpret that was the responsibility of the students.

Q: Did you ever travel together?

A: Once, when I went to Iwama at the beginning of the new year I was told “the old man is going back to Tokyo, so go with him as his Otomo (“attendant”)”, so I returned with him to Hombu Dojo. After all, I couldn’t refuse – it was really exhausting. (laughing)

Q: (laughing) Being with him wasn’t enjoyable?

A: Being together for hours on end was really something. (laughing) I was on pins and needles the entire time, and he walked really quickly. That eighty year old man would just slip right through the crowds. I was carrying the tickets, so I somehow kept up, but I became drenched in a cold sweat. That was really intensive training in Ashi-sabaki, Tai-sabaki and Irimi! By some miracle I just managed to stay with him. I think that the thread connecting our feelings didn’t get cut, so I was able to follow along right after him. If I had thought about it with my head then I wouldn’t have been able to do it. I really learned something that day.

Q: I guess that there were no hitches in his movement?

A: Of course not! If there were a hitch then that would make you get stuck. There was one time that a group of detective story authors gathered at the dojo discussing things like Sen-no-sen and Go-no-sen (Translator’s Note: “Go-no-sen” – moving after the attack reaches you, “Sen-no-sen” – moving at the same time as the attack but before it reaches you, “Sen-sen-no-sen” – moving before the attack even begins). When that happened O-Sensei said “Sen-sen-no-sen? Don’t be an idiot, I would already have won from the beginning!”.

Q: He was right there?

A: Yes. Everybody just sat there with their mouths open. Whether it is Sen-sen-no-sen or Go-no-sen, they are all strategies with a hitch in them, relative strategies applied in relation to the opponent. But O-Sensei said “That’s not it. When you move right in it’s finished.”. I think so also.

Q: Did O-Sensei teach you anything in particular about movement?

A: One of the Kuden (“oral transmissions”) that I was taught is “The legs are used through the waist, the hands are used through educating the intellect” (脚は腰で使い、手は知育で使う). If one moves from the feet than things will stop right there, but when one uses the waist they can move continuously without interruption. That the hands are used through intellectual training doesn’t mean that one thinks about how to use them, it means to move them naturally.

Q: What was it like to take ukemi for the Founder?

A: He was the easiest person to take ukemi for. He would throw with the flow and wouldn’t allow you to be injured. But it was frightening. You could see the ceiling, turning completely upside down as you fell. I thought “I hate being this scared”. But it was a great feeling, it was inspirational. Even now I can remember the feel of his touch. That is my treasure. It was from those times that I able to learn that Aikido has no competitive matches through feeling it with my own senses.

Q: Is that because he met you so strongly?

A: That’s not it. I was completely absorbed “This is Aikido!” – I had understood the theory, but there I was able to actually experience it.

Q: Did you clash against each other during the practices?

A: That’s because two people who won’t fall are doing it together. It is the same way that water gradually smoothes a rough stone into a round one. However, in the midst of that one must show them “it’s actually different, you know”, or the path will be cut, and people will think “is that it?”. Aren’t there a lot of people like that? In reality, people don’t really fall down that easily, you know. That’s a delusion. That way is enjoyable, but at some point your eyes will be opened. I myself spent year after year in delusion. But when one starts to glimpse some of the truth they will understand. Throwing another person is not that easy. If you think about throwing them and become stiff then it won’t work. Make yourself comfortable. Once a person who was a boxer suddenly threw an uppercut during practice, (laughing) but I handled them naturally. When one’s training is soft and adaptable it will come out. It’s because I am moving comfortably that the hitches dissappear and I am able to move.

Q: Do it comfortably….

A: Yes, but the image that you have of “comfortable” is different, the “condition” (調子) is different. Certainly, everything has a certain condition. But what is important is not the condition between oneself and the opponent, what is important is the condition that one applies to their own feelings. Including Kokyu. For that reason one creates a condition that is large enough to envelop the opponent, or there is also a kind of condition that will corner the opponent in an instant. You must have both.

Q: That’s difficult, isn’t it?

A: It’s difficult! How many years do you think that I’ve been doing this? (laughing) In order to do this you must understand three things.

Q: What three things?

A: First and most important is to know the past. Study history. Next is knowledge of current conditions. And finally, to enact the future. When I say knowledge of current conditions – for example, if you are a person with about the same amount of strength as I have then strategy and tactics are necessary. But in the future, the dream and goal of mankind to eliminate the need for that will require effort. I favor the elimination of that need, and that is what I strive for. That is why it is difficult. This is more difficult than winning or losing.

Hiroshi Kato Sensei teaching in the United States – 2005

You can’t just like it, you have to fall in love with it.

Q: Could we hear some more about the teachings of the Founder?

A: He didn’t really speak in much detail. However, although it is often said that O-Sensei didn’t teach, and I think that is not the case. There was a certain way of teaching….I think that his way of teaching was really the best.

Q: What was it?

A: Showing the best thing. Showing it in action, showing its atmosphere. It’s not a matter of showing how to throw. After watching the movements of the Founder, what each person took away was left up to their own abilities and study. Put another way, depending upon how one looked at the Founder everything was different. Even just one swing of the bokken was completely different, you know. But I think that the reason why I continue in Aikido even now is because I saw the Founder performing the best movements, and was touched by his hand.

Q: Showing the best thing….

A: There were no explanations of O-Sensei’s technique, because he only talked about the gods. Like “Aikido came from Heaven”. However, that’s also a good thing, because there are times one can think “this wasn’t something made by man, so there will some parts that are just a mystery”.

Q: What did you think at the time when you heard those kinds of speeches?

A: I didn’t understand. (laughing) Those people who came in through a relationship with religion tried to look as if they understood, but the important things were not to be understood through words. That’s because they were to be expressed in your own body through your practice.

Q: So it’s meaningless to try and study theory?

A: I suppose that there’s some value to study, but there must be something that oozes out of your body. I think that must be Aikido? I feel that people today more or less understand this. But I didn’t dislike his speeches. I didn’t understand them, but I felt as if they were something important.

Q: If a time comes to understand will one understand?

A: Maybe it’s okay not to understand. It is just my ideal to be able to think “I have something wonderful”, since O-Sensei’s form, his image, is inside my head.

Q: What is the image of the Founder that has stayed with you the most?

A: What can I say, something wonderful. Something like the Buddha in the background…. Whatever it is, for me he is absolutely a Kami-sama. I am happy just that there was someone who was able to make me feel that way. I can’t take his place, though. (laughing) Whether or not one believes in the gods, when there is a dream like that, doesn’t that become one’s ideal?

Q: Your ideal?

A: Yes. When I do Aikido I say “You can’t just like it, you have to fall in love with it.”. You have to fall in love with it. If you go so far as to fall in love with it, then even when it’s silent you’ll be training. If you like something then when you become exhausted you’ll stop. Of course, it’s tough, when I was young and even now. But even when it was tough it was enjoyable. Even now I enjoy it. If I do it with a bored look on my face it wouldn’t be very interesting, would it? (laughing) So, I don’t teach, we practice together. However, within that one must put in as much effort as they can.

Q: What is your maximum effort?

A: I must express myself so that I can leave everyone with the impression that “Aikido is a wonderful thing”. I think that is the responsibility of those people who have taken the hand of O-Sensei. Of course, within that there have been many changes. In times past I thought “I don’t have to do this kind of stuff, I’ll just toss them!”. (laughing)

Q: You have also gone through many changes yourself, haven’t you? (laughing)

A: One thing that I remember well from O-Sensei’s lectures is when he said “I don’t have even a single student”. We thought that we were students, though. (laughing) But when we said “Is that so?” then he would say “But I have many companions” (仲間).

Shinran Shonin (1173-1263)

Q: Companions?

A: I think that Shinran (親鸞, the Founder of Jodo Shinshu Buddhism) said it too, he called them “companions” (同行の士). I think that is a good way to put it, so I think the same way. I am at the top of the teaching structure, but we are all companions. Someone who appears suddenly and teaches something that people like so much that they follow him in silence must be a Founder.

Q: Did you feel that with the Founder?

A: I did, yes. People are different, but I felt that way.

Gekkan Hiden April 2007

Published by: Christopher Li – Honolulu, HI

The post Interview with Aikido Shihan Hiroshi Kato – Part 2 appeared first on Aikido Sangenkai Blog.

Hiroshi Kato was born in Tokyo on March 24th 1935, and entered Aikikai Hombu Dojo in 1954 at the age of 18.

In 1975 he formed an informal practice group at the Suginami Ward Koenji Gymnasium near his home, and in April 1987 he established the Suginami Aikikai (杉並合気会) dojo in the Suginami Ward of Tokyo, Japan as a branch dojo of the Aikikai Foundation.

This is the first part of a two part interview with Hiroshi Kato that originally appeared in the April 2007 issue of Gekkan Hiden (月刊秘伝 / “Secret Teachings Monthly”), a well known martial arts magazine in Japan.

This interview was also published in a collection of interviews with students of the Founder published in Japanese as 開祖の横顔 (“Profiles of the Founder”) in 2009. There was a short introduction to this work in the article “Morihei Ueshiba – Profiles of the Founder“. A number of English translations of interviews from that collection appeared have appeared previously – Nobuyoshi Tamura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Isoyama Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Shigenobu Okumura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Nobuyuki Watanabe Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Masatake Fujita Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) , Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) and Kanshu Sunadomari (Part 1 | Part 2).

Hiroshi Kato – Aikido Tankyu (合気道探求) #28

Interview with Aikido Shihan Hiroshi Kato – Part 1

When we first met I had a premonition that I would continue for the rest of my life.

Q: What was your impression first meeting the Founder?

A: I thought, “There are really people like this in the world? Wonderful!”. Somehow I thought “I’ll continue this for the rest of my life…” – and even now I am still continuing. (laughing)

Q: It was that intense?

A: What he was doing was incredible, but it was also that the atmosphere was incredible. That’s important, you know. Because he was the first person like that.

Q: What did the atmosphere of the dojo feel like at that time?

A: Well, it was full of strange people. (laughing) That’s because it was the time when, first of all, people thought “I want to become strong”. Actually, most of the people were Yudansha in Karate, Judo or Kendo, and were already strong before they even began. (laughing) So of course, the training was severe.

Q: Wasn’t it a struggle for you without any special experience in Budo?

A: It wasn’t difficult. It was just training, so it’s not as if they were coming to fight with you. Fortunately, I had a lot of horsepower. That is, if you didn’t have physical power you wouldn’t have been able to make it. (laughing) There were also some folks who would suddenly try to apply a leg sweep on you. (laughing) But if one takes the falls honestly every day then they will be able to react when someone goes beyond the principle being trained. When I think of it now it seems as if everybody was quite violent. (laughing) But in the end it was because I was able to train with so many of those people that my body was able to remember those things.

Q: Did you do any basic physical strength training?

A: Not at the dojo, but I always did that kind of thing at home or in other places. That was a time when there were still very few sports clubs, but there were some of the sempai who lifted barbells. Well, even if it wasn’t barbells then everybody was doing something like that. If you didn’t then you wouldn’t be able to keep up with the training.

Q: What kind of things did you do?

A: I took a lot of ukemi. I would do mae-ukemi several hundred times in the dojo when nobody was there, walk around the dojo ten times in shikko, I did a lot of things like that. Additionally, I would do things like swing a log around or do cuts with a bokken. I did Karate striking as well, on a makiwara that I made myself. I never did Karate, but if one didn’t do that kind of thing than it would be done to them. While practicing striking oneself one comes to understand the feelings of an opponent who is coming to strike them.

Q: What had the greatest influence on your Aikido?

A: Number one was O-Sensei. I don’t have any image other than that. Other than that, I somehow remember training on my own, and the things that I practiced. I’m afraid that I have forgotten everything that was taught to me by my sempai. Though of course, they must have had an influence on me. However, the interesting thing about the Aikikai is that they don’t force you “do it like this”. For that reason the sensitivity to accept the good things while separating them from the bad is required. So everybody has individual characteristics. From the point of view of a spectator people are so different that they may think “are they really doing the same thing?”.

Q: Did they each do Aikido with a different feeling?

A: That’s because Aikido is something that feels different with each person. Then, everybody was really strong. Including me. (laughing) I think that’s why it was so difficult for Kisshomaru Sensei to put everything together. Everybody was just doing whatever they liked. (laughing) However, I think that was the reason why Aikido has become as large as it has. If a strict framework had been set “this is Aikido” then the sense of its value would have become much narrower. I think that there is also a strength in having a variety of different kinds of people.

Hiroshi Kato Sensei demonstrating tachi-dori
“After sensing the movement is too slow, even after sensing their Ki is too late. The ideal is to move before one senses their Ki.”

The necessity for spiritual training.

Q: Looking back, do you see many changes in your Aikido?

A: There was a big change after I turned thirty, when I injured my back. I made a mistake in my method of training.

Q: What was your mistake?

A: The use of my lower body. Up until that time I would use my momentum to bounce, that was no good. In the end, I thought that (Aikido was) “not techniques for conflict, for defeating other people”, and I changed. However, I had a difficult time after that. Because I didn’t understand what to do, you know.

Q: It was completely different from what you had done up until that time?

A: It was different. One changes their feelings. There are those who can do it in an instant and those for whom it may take years – it took me quite some time.

Q: Until that time you were moving with explosive force (瞬発力)?

A: That’s right. But there is a hitch in that kind of movement. If something happens you will be done for. Make no mistake.

Q: What was the new principle, or movement, from that time?

A: The use of the lower body itself is not a mistake. However, the way in which you use it, the balance of stillness and motion there, the problem of the internal aspects, and the consciousness… Originally my movement was much faster. Rather then saying muscle, it was the speed of physical force (魄力). O-Sensei often told me “it’s not the body (魄), it’s the mind (魂)”. But I was stupid and I didn’t listen. (laughing)

Q: It’s difficult to understand that when your body is moving, isn’t it?

A: Yes, you can’t understand it. When I became unable to move my body I thought “Ah, so that’s it!”. That’s not a principle, it’s something inside one’s body that they understand instinctively. If it doesn’t occur naturally in your training than perhaps that hitch will be created in your movement. When there is a hitch then a rhythm will be created, and if one tries to take their distance they will be done for. Because that kind of person will soon be cut down. That is why it is said “begin Aikido from the void”. Then I just kept thinking of things like “if it’s not the movement of the body (魄), how can one become one with the opponent?” – that had the opposite effect of making me unable to move my body, and I really fell into a slump.

Q: A slump?

A: I don’t know how long I failed. I just thought that someday I would understand and kept on doing it, no matter whether people were laughing at me or not.

Q: Was it painful?

A: I didn’t particularly feel that it was painful. If it’s something you can’t do then it just can’t be helped. Because I’m just “ordinary”. (laughing) But it is because I am a person that has put in the time to build themselves up that now there are times that I can say “don’t do that”. Surprisingly, it is because those with talent can do those things naturally that they don’t understand.

Q: What did you do to increase your sense of the internal aspects?

A: Swinging a bokken all night, sitting with my mouth wide open in a daze, walking on the mountainside… I walked as much as 60 kilometers in a single night!

Q: Why did you do those kinds of things?

A: In order to forget myself. The Japanese method of “gyo” (“spiritual training” / 行) is to throw away everything that one has. In order to to unify all of your physical aspects it is necessary to do some amount of “gyo”.

Q: Why did you believe that to be necessary?

A: It wasn’t that I did it because I decided to do it, I did it because there wasn’t anything else that I could do. When one thinks “if I do this then I will improve” then they will always fail. However, in the midst of my nights swinging the bokken I would often be surprised by sudden insights. If one tries to think of it first it just won’t work.

Q: What changed as result of those practices?

A: I became calmer, I really did. I think that my technique also changed. My technique has also changed recently. If one doesn’t change as they get older they will end up failing. Also, those people who think that they are able to do it will end up failing. It’s because one thinks that they can’t do it yet that they are able to innovate, that they are able to change.

Q: What do you feel is your ideal Aikido?

A: In the end, naturalness is number one, I think that it begins when one empties their mind and their body moves naturally.

Q: Is it impossible to reach that state without some kind of spiritual training (“gyo”)?

A: Well, one could call it spiritual training, or that if one swings a bokken that they swing it with full intensity. It’s necessary to push through with full intensity. Even if one swings a bokken, if one has the feeling of trying to swing it strongly with their arms it absolutely won’t do any good. As with everything else, when one practices thinking “I’ve understood it, I’ve realized it” then it won’t work. (laughing) I myself repeated that many times.

Q: When did you begin to change?

Prince Shotoku – eighth century woodblock print

A: In the end, it’s no good to think about defeating other people, one must think “let’s practice in a joyful manner”. That’s because once one thinks about defeating the other person it shows in their stance. That’s the same as “Harmony is to be valued” (Translator’s Note: 和を似て尊しとなす – from the Seventeen-Article Constitution set forth by Prince Shotoku in the 7th century, in which he stressed the primary importance of harmony in social relations).

Q: When you say harmony is seems like an idealistic ethical theory, is this also a necessary element of Aikido in the technical sense?

A: Those ethics are necessary. It is from them the distance between us disappears, one is able to move, and technique appears. But it’s not easy. As you might think, it’s important not to become angry when the come at you. (laughing)

Q: Is that harmony an instantaneous thing?

A: Rather than saying in an instant, it’s that one must change the way that they stand. At the moment one stands one must envelope the opponent. That is something that O-Sensei had. I felt it. If one suppresses their desires and discards themselves, they will become free, won’t they? Without that part one will always be consigned to the world of warfare. The reason why there are no competitions in Aikido is that “if you want make your life so that such things are not necessary you can do it”. Perhaps if this continues to spread than the world will become at peace.

Hiroshi Kato Sensei demonstrates morote-dori
“It is the responsibility of those people who have taken the hand of O-Sensei to show that Aikido is a wonderful thing.”

Q: That must require a high level of consciousness from those training, doesn’t it?

A: I think so. For that reason our methodology is to train in a single flow, each person taking ukemi for the other. However, the most frightening thing about this kind of training is to be carried away by the imagery. I would like everybody to be aware that we are “doing something even stricter than contests”.

Continued in Part 2…

Published by: Christopher Li – Honolulu, HI

The post Interview with Aikido Shihan Hiroshi Kato – Part 1 appeared first on Aikido Sangenkai Blog.

Kanshu Sunadomari’s family had close ties to Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba through their belief in the Omoto-kyo religion. His older brother, Kanemoto Sunadomari (砂泊兼基), was one of the early students of O-Sensei and the author of the first biography of the Aikido Founder ever published. His sister, Fukiko Sunadomari (砂泊扶妃子), served for many years as the “Fujin Bucho” (婦人部長 / “Head of the Women’s Section”) of the Aikikai.

He became an Uchi-deshi to Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba O-Sensei shortly before World War II, and upon his return to Kyushu after the war he gave the first public demonstration of Aikido there in 1953, after which he opened the Manseikan Aikido dojo in Kumamoto. Promoted to 9th Dan by Morihei Ueshiba in 1961, he became independent from the main Aikikai organization after the death of the Founder in 1969. He passed away in November 2010.

Sunadomari Sensei’s book “合気道で悟る” has been published in English as “Enlightenment through Aikido“.

This is the second part of a two part interview that originally appeared in the August 2004 issue of Gekkan Hiden (月刊秘伝 / “Secret Teachings Monthly”), a well known martial arts magazine in Japan. You may wish to read Part 1 of the interview before reading this section.

This interview was also published in a collection of interviews with students of the Founder published in Japanese as 開祖の横顔 (“Profiles of the Founder”) in 2009. There was a short introduction to this work in the article “Morihei Ueshiba – Profiles of the Founder“. A number of English translations of interviews from that collection appeared have appeared previously – Nobuyoshi Tamura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Hiroshi Isoyama Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Shigenobu Okumura Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Nobuyuki Watanabe Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2), Masatake Fujita Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2) and Yoshimitsu Yamada Sensei (Part 1 | Part 2).

 Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba O-Sensei

Interview with Aikido Shihan Kanshu Sunadomari – Part 2

Finding the words of the Founder in the midst of struggle.

Q: Rolling up the fingers when applying technique can be called a special characteristic of the current day Manseikan, how did you use your hands when your first started teaching Aikido in Kyushu?

A: They were opened up. It took some twenty years to reach the current form (“maki-komi” / 巻き込み). It didn’t happen all at once, it changed gradually.

Q: Twenty years!

A: It’s not the kind of technique that comes out easily. It started in Showa year 29 (1954) and it finally approached the current form around Showa year 49 (1974). At that time I realized for the first time that the Founder’s words “Aiki is Love” (合気は愛なり) were truly the spirit of Aikido, and began to put the curling of the fingers in the forefront at the dojo and when teaching.

Q: Did you become aware of the importance of the Founder’s words after discovering this curling?

A: Rather than a discovery, it was more that my technique had arrived at that point naturally. So it wasn’t something that I suddenly became able to do. Even now it is still changing little by little.

Morihei Ueshiba and Kanshu Sunadomari

Q: Your students say the same thing – “Even now Sensei’s techniques are different than they were a year ago”.

A: Those people who take ukemi understand! I myself, who is doing it, can’t really feel it. We have been holding this workshop (Note: this interview was taken on the same day as the workshop) once a month since Showa year 51 (1976) and there are people who come every time. This makes things really difficult. If I just showed Kata then I don’t think that they would come. It’s because I have them take my hand that they are able to feel it. So I think that they become aware of my evolution, and that I will continue to evolve.

Q: But you learned through Kata at first. What I would like to know is how you reached the point where it is no longer Kata. Is it because it wasn’t effective?

A: When I first began to teach Aikido in Kumamoto, people who had trained in other types of Budo began to come to the classes. When that happened they would fight against the techniques and they wouldn’t work. At times like that I couldn’t tell them not to struggle.

Q: I see…

A: There are some dojo where they tell people not to fight against the techniques, but you cannot truly call techniques like that effective. They are okay at the time, but there is no progress and I think that they must eventually hit a wall. Or perhaps, even if they hit that wall they are unaware of it and just continue on doing the same thing.

Morihei Ueshiba at the Manseikan Aikido dojo in 1963

Q: That was a time when Aikido was still unknown, where there many people who wanted to try out their skills against it?

A: Yes, there were. I can talk about it now that it is in the past, but at the beginning I also tried to make the techniques work through Kata and was embarrassed many times. It was because I had that experience that I thought seriously about how the Founder made use of the Mind in techniques.

Q: Do you think that if the opponent is strong then one must also have strength?

A: No matter how a person without physical power attempts to do something physically it won’t work. The world is full of physically powerful people, so there is always a limit. What is important is how we can express the Mind of the Founder in the body. This is not a simple thing. It was a matter of trial and error – I think that someone who only knew me at that time would be shocked to see me in the current day.

Q: When did you actually begin to use the current style of curling the fingers?

A: It was around Showa year 49 (1974) when, somehow, I began to have the feeling that I had become a physical expression of the words of the Founder. As for actually teaching it in a workshop, it was in January of Showa year 51 (1976) when people actually took my hand.

Morihei Ueshiba in Kagoshima – 1961

Q: I have heard that until that time, when you were instructing the police, you would use Atemi when you couldn’t apply your techniques, and that it was through a process of trail and error that you found the clues leading to the “Musubi” that you use now.

A: I think that it was around Showa year 31 or 32 (1961 or 1962), when I first began to teach Aikido in Fukuoka I would do training courses at the police academy. At that time, when my partner came to grab me strongly I would usually apply techniques after first applying an Atemi. I thought “this is no good”.  I thought that it was no good if the techniques were ineffective against a resistant opponent, if I couldn’t do anything without applying an Atemi. It was then that I began to reconsider the Mind of the Founder. Even then, I didn’t understand right away! However, my older brother was writing a biography of the Founder, and was slowly collecting the writings of the Founder.

Kanshu Sunadomari’s older brother Kanemoto Sunadomari
from “Aikido Densho” (合気道伝書)

Q: That would be “Aikido Founder Ueshiba Morihei” (合気道開祖植芝盛平 / 1969)?

A: Many of the Gods, and their revelations to him, appear in the writings of the Founder, and the names of the Gods also appear there. The Founder showed these to my older brother so that he could write his biography. They were sent to me after my older brother passed away. Those were my foundation.

Q: What kinds of writings were these?

A: I introduced some of these in my book – one of these is “Aiki is Love ” (合気は愛なり).  I trained while thinking about writings of the Founder like this, and the current form (curling fingers) gradually came into being.

Q: It seems that many of those training in Aikido take the path that you have followed as one of their themes. Do you mean that your daily training in the dojo comes to fruition and becomes effective outside of the dojo?

A: I think that you can never understand that as long as you just stay inside the dojo. In the end, you will remain trapped inside the Kata. As long as you are there I think that you will never destroy the Kata.

Q: You must have gone through many struggles in Kyushu to reach the place you are now.

A: The Founder said “Destroy the Kata, create the Kata, Take Musu Aiki is continuous creation and growth”.  For that reason, you must destroy the Kata.

Q: But that doesn’t mean to destroy them at random, does it?

A: For that reason the Founder left many writings behind. It is because you shut them away in a drawer and forget about them that there are problems. You have to know how to make the connection from the Mind to the Kata. It’s because you’ve already decided “this is Aikido” that you can’t make that connection.

Kanshu Sunadomari exlplains “Musubi”

What is Kokyu-ryoku?

Q: I would like to ask about this again, but what exactly is this “Kokyu-ryoku” that you speak about?

A: Stated simply, it is to entrust the point at which you are engaged to your opponent and become one with them.

Q: Relative to the place in which your opponent is putting in the most strength?

A: Through removing one’s strength one can instantly understand which way their opponent’s power is going, whether they are pushing or pulling. You slip in right there. Later on just being touched by the opponent will cause technique to emerge. When you push with strength you clash with the opponent and it won’t work.

Q: Is the main point of that Manseikan trademark curling the fingers to remove one’s own strength?

A: That’s right. But don’t think that’s all that there is. Technique emerges from many places in the flow of technique. Many, many different techniques emerge from the flow of a single technique. As Ueshiba Sensei said “There are no techniques in Aikido, it is Intent”. He left this written down clearly. For that reason, Kata disappears.

(Translator’s note: The word translated above, and below, in this interview as “Intent” is 魂 (“Hun” / “Kon”), which is often translated as “soul”. Actually, it is one part of the two-souled Chinese cosmology which composes two of the five aspects of consciousness. 魂 is the ethereal soul and is associated with Yo (Yang) and the intellect. According to Zhang Jiebin (1563-1640, whose works formed a major influence on Chinese Traditional Medicine) “The ethereal soul is the coming and going of the mind.”.

Q: Basically speaking, what does it mean to be connected by Kokyu-ryoku?

A: When one takes their partner’s arm their own arm becomes like a rope, joining with the opponent and melting into each other. Here the state of your heart is the problem. It’s absolutely impossible if one has a spirit of antagonism towards their opponent.

Q: So it’s not just a matter of simply releasing your strength?

A: Just removing your strength is no good. One must consciously entrust it to the opponent, little by little. The Founder’s hands were soft, and one did not feel any power!

Q: Isn’t it difficult for the average person to understand the feeling of “entrusting” that point to the opponent?

A: It’s not a movement of the body, here I think that the world of the spirit is important.

Q: Is this the point at which the words of the Founder “Aiki is Love” become relevant?

A: It is necessary to unify the body and the spirit. However, the physical body can’t go ahead. One moves ahead with the spirit as the core. I believe that this is important. I believe that this was left to us by the Founder, and that it was his goal.

Q: Could it be said that the words “Aiki is Love” indicate the state of mind necessary for Kokyu-ryoku, becoming one with the opponent, and realizing the true power of Aikido?

A: The physical body is a vessel for the creation of Intent, and the place of its training. One cannot become conditioned solely through Intent. There is a place for training the physical body, and Intent enhances that.

Q: Like two wheels, one cannot be favored over the other…

“Takemusu Aiki” calligraphy by Morihei Ueshiba
the inscription reads “The Mother of Takemusu Aiki” (武産合気の母)

Transmitting the Skills of Aiki from the Founder

Q: You weren’t with the Founder for all that long, so why did you come to believe that “everything is contained in the words of the Founder”?

A: Because of their connection to the mentality of the Founder.

Q: It’s not a matter of time?

A: The Founder trained in the Omoto religion, and all of his words came to be through the process of that training.

Q: So, you aren’t just talking about Aikido?

A: In other words, for the Founder Aikido techniques as Budo and religion were the same thing. I believe that it is for this reason that the Budo of the Founder was different from other Budo. I think that the phrase “get rid of the enemy” (敵を無くする) must have come from religion. Because I was raised in religion from the time that I was a child.

Kanshu Sunadomari at a beginning women’s workshop in 1968

Q: After all, that’s a very important point.

A: There is something there that connects to my spirit. It may be that if that’s not so then one cannot understand.

Q: Somehow we all treat the words “Aiki is Love” as a separate subject from technique, but according to what you are saying the two things cannot be separated as far as Aikido is concerned.

A: Yes, that’s right. I think that this is the reason why the Founder left us the words “What will make World Peace is this Aikido” (世界を平和にするのはこの合気道である) in his writings. If what makes World Peace is Aikido, then the techniques that are appropriate for that path must emerge. Because Aikido is a physical art. However, if one just pursues technique while leaving the words of the Founder incomplete then they will remain mired in the region of Kata. I think that since the Founder was so strong that, even more, the techniques became transmitted as Kata in some ways. In my case I think that it happened naturally. Before the Founder left for Tokyo he said “This Budo will flourish in the Land of Fire” (Note: “Land of Fire” / 火の国 is another name for Kumamoto) – I believe that what I am doing now is what the Founder predicted then.  This calligraphy (Note: shown above)  was given to me by the Founder in Showa year 36 (1966), can you see there where it says “The Mother of Takemusu Aiki” (武産合気の母)? That is the creator. One senses the connection to Intent.

Q: Speaking of connection, each month at the workshops you have the students take your hand directly.

A: I am turning 81 this year, and of course there are some things that must be transmitted through having them directly take my hand. I’m not just doing this because that’s how we practice every day, this is training in Intent. Although no matter what you do some of your physical power will decrease with age…

Q: You said that it was a smaller group than usual today, but even so you had almost fifty people take your hand, didn’t you?

A: So what that means is that my “forearm” has changed so that it is easier to grasp my “skill” (Note: here Sunadomari Sensei makes a pun on the words for “forearm” and “skill”). Especially since I’ve lost weight as I aged.

Q: So you are transmitting this “skill” (“forearm”)!

A: In the end, even now in my everyday training I think about how to express the words of the Founder in my technique. That is my Shugyo. It is because of this that I do not teach Aikido as Kata. As the Founder said, “There is no Soke in Budo” (武道に宗家がないんだ) – each person training on their own path, walking that path, this is an important state of mind for those learning Budo. In my case, I think that finding how to express the Mind of the Founder in Aikido, and how to spread that to the world has been important. In that sense, it has been one of my goals to create a place where the doors can be opened wide to all people.

Gekkan Hiden Magazine, April 2009

Published by: Christopher Li – Honolulu, HI

The post Interview with Aikido Shihan Kanshu Sunadomari – Part 2 appeared first on Aikido Sangenkai Blog.